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Engine stop tests.

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ncol(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:51 am Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Hi



I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.



We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight!  

We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade  

prop, dual mags.



The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel  

runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.



First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really  

couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local  

Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right  

hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set  

to 5000ft.



There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25  

gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on  

the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced  

landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.



Then it was back up to 5000ft.

Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to  

add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on  

going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so  

eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we  

managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop  

stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less  

than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the  

tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is  

about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.



So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a  

flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.



The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could  

start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery /  

broken  starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started,  

but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.



With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,  

1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.



The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at  

4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)



After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually  

it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about  

130-150 knots.



Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we  

were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away  

with under 3000ft.



Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the  

other tank!

So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally  

the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch  

pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.



Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the  

overcast for a short while.



So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank  

dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.



However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue  

to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then  

there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And  

if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then  

you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to  

stop.



So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.



If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from  

you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.



Neil



ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks  

back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting  

anywhere for an airshow.

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AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:23 am Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Fabulous detail and invaluable research.  We need more of this stuff and

less accident reporting.  By the way, did you go with the stock James

engine cowl?



The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka.  See you for

OSH '08.



John



--

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:43 am Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Neil,



  Excellent right up.  Thanks for sharing!



Michael

Do not archive



--

ncol(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:25 am Post subject: Engine stop tests.

James cowl & plenum. Had to add a slightly bigger oil cooler.



Neil



On 9/04/2008, at 6:20 AM, John W. Cox wrote:



[quote] 

 <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>



 Fabulous detail and invaluable research.  We need more of this stuff  

 and

 less accident reporting.  By the way, did you go with the stock James

 engine cowl?



 The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka.  See you  

 for

 OSH '08.



 John



 --

Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Engine stop tests.

During these tests, what did you find the best glide to be with and without the prop being stopped.



Thank You

Ray Doerr

40250 (N519RV)



--

ncol(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

The best glide with the engine at tickover (minimum throttle) was 75  

knots. We must have done over an hour of tests to establish this.



Last night we were gliding at about 80 knots. Full fine was about 1000  

ft/m, full corse was about 200 ft/m better. Sorry, but we didn't  

attempt to establish best glide  with engine stopped as the focus was  

on re-starting.



Neil

On 9/04/2008, at 7:39 AM, Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:



[quote] 

 >



        During these tests, what did you find the best glide to be  

 with and without the prop being stopped.



 Thank You

 Ray Doerr

 40250 (N519RV)



 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:20 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Awesome job Neil!  I did shut off fuel on mine and let the prop

windmill, but as I lack the balls that you have, I didn't

stop the prop.  For you though, the man who's going to fly to

OSH from NZ....you've definitely got the cahones to tackle

such tests. 



With a windmilling prop, you can't really hardly even tell that

the engine has stopped, and a restart is dirt simple.



Glad you're having such a blast!

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi

 

 I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.

 

 We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight! We 

 have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade prop, 

 dual mags.

 

 The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel 

 runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.

 

 First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really 

 couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local Airforce 

 base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right hand seat, the 

 tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set to 5000ft.

 

 There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25 

 gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on the 

 runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced landings from 

 all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.

 

 Then it was back up to 5000ft.

 Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to 

 add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on going 

 at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so eventually 

 with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we managed to 

 finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop stopped, and 

 the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less than ideal for 

 the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the tests. There is no 

 doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is about 200 ft/m better 

 with the prop in full course.

 

 So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a 

 flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.

 

 The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we could 

 start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat battery / 

 broken  starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the engine started, 

 but the starter failed in the process. So I was unable to restart.

 

 With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine, 1/2 

 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.

 

 The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at 

 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)

 

 After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually it 

 did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of about 

 130-150 knots.

 

 Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle we 

 were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get away 

 with under 3000ft.

 

 Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in the 

 other tank!

 So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until finally 

 the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to switch 

 pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.

 

 Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the 

 overcast for a short while.

 

 So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank 

 dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.

 

 However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily continue 

 to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil pressure, then 

 there is very little time to coursen up the prop to minimise drag. And 

 if you are thinking of saving the engine on your forced landing, then 

 you need to drop the flap and stall for a while to get the engine to stop.

 

 So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.

 

 If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from you. 

 Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.

 

 Neil

 

 ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks 

 back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting anywhere 

 for an airshow.

 

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

ncol(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:47 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

You're kidding! Neil hasn't got the balls to do it . He cheated and  

took the test pilot with him who has got the balls to do it!! I  

certainly wasn't going to do it with him. I haven't got any balls full  

stop!



Sarah

definitely do not archive

On 9/04/2008, at 8:17 AM, Tim Olson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Awesome job Neil!  I did shut off fuel on mine and let the prop

 windmill, but as I lack the balls that you have, I didn't

 stop the prop.  For you though, the man who's going to fly to

 OSH from NZ....you've definitely got the cahones to tackle

 such tests. 



 With a windmilling prop, you can't really hardly even tell that

 the engine has stopped, and a restart is dirt simple.



 Glad you're having such a blast!

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:

> Hi

> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.

> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In  

> flight! We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT  

> 3 blade prop, dual mags.

> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the  

> fuel runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.

> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we  

> really couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our  

> local Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the  

> right hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off  

> we set to 5000ft.

> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25  

> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit)  

> on the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced  

> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.

> Then it was back up to 5000ft.

> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten  

> to add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept  

> on going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so  

> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we  

> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the  

> prop stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it  

> is less than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted  

> to do the tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the  

> glide rate is about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.

> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a  

> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.

> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we  

> could start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat  

> battery / broken  starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the  

> engine started, but the starter failed in the process. So I was  

> unable to restart.

> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine,  

> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.

> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though  

> at 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)

> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and  

> eventually it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a  

> speed of about 130-150 knots.

> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle  

> we were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get  

> away with under 3000ft.

> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in  

> the other tank!

> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until  

> finally the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time  

> to switch pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas  

> at all.

> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the  

> overcast for a short while.

> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a  

> tank dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient  

> height.

> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily  

> continue to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil  

> pressure, then there is very little time to coursen up the prop to  

> minimise drag. And if you are thinking of saving the engine on your  

> forced landing, then you need to drop the flap and stall for a  

> while to get the engine to stop.

> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.

> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from  

> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.

> Neil

> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of  

> weeks back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best  

> setting anywhere for an airshow.

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Just gotta love it....! 



Do not archive



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Ahhhhhhhh yes, and if there's anyone who would know Neil, it

would be his wife.   Glad you're keeping him honest there

Sarah!



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 You're kidding! Neil hasn't got the balls to do it . He cheated and took 

 the test pilot with him who has got the balls to do it!! I certainly 

 wasn't going to do it with him. I haven't got any balls full stop!

 

 Sarah

 definitely do not archive

 On 9/04/2008, at 8:17 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 

> 

>

> Awesome job Neil!  I did shut off fuel on mine and let the prop

> windmill, but as I lack the balls that you have, I didn't

> stop the prop.  For you though, the man who's going to fly to

> OSH from NZ....you've definitely got the cahones to tackle

> such tests. 

>

> With a windmilling prop, you can't really hardly even tell that

> the engine has stopped, and a restart is dirt simple.

>

> Glad you're having such a blast!

> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

> do not archive

> Neil & Sarah Colliver wrote:

>> Hi

>> I would like to report on some tests we did this evening.

>> We wanted to know what would happen when the engine stops. In flight! 

>> We have a Barratts IO540, standard compression, with the MT 3 blade 

>> prop, dual mags.

>> The object of the exercise was to see just what happens when the fuel 

>> runs out in one tank, and how easy it is to re-start.

>> First exercise was to practise some forced landings in case we really 

>> couldn't restart it. So complete with clearance from our local 

>> Airforce base, and with one of their squadron leaders in the right 

>> hand seat, the tower fully briefed on what we were doing, off we set 

>> to 5000ft.

>> There was a relatively strong wind of about 35 knots at 2000ft & 25 

>> gusting 30 on the ground . So we came up a bit short (just a bit) on 

>> the runway. I was reminded then that I need to practice forced 

>> landings from all heights, not just pattern (or circuit) height.

>> Then it was back up to 5000ft.

>> Cool the engine a bit, then ( all in controlled airspace I hasten to 

>> add), we cut mixture to full idle cut off. The engine just kept on 

>> going at about 500 rpm in the glide at about 80 knots or so, so 

>> eventually with full flap, and mushing down at about 55 knots, we 

>> managed to finally get it to stop. It's certainly odd seeing the prop 

>> stopped, and the ground so far below. Yes we do know that it is less 

>> than ideal for the prop to drive the engine, but we wanted to do the 

>> tests. There is no doubt that if the engine stops, the glide rate is 

>> about 200 ft/m better with the prop in full course.

>> So it was full rich, full fine, and about 1/2 inch. Fuel pump on, a 

>> flick of the starter and away it went. So no problems there at all.

>> The next test was a bit harder, because we wanted to check if we 

>> could start the engine without the starter (just in case of a flat 

>> battery / broken  starter etc.) I've had two occasions where the 

>> engine started, but the starter failed in the process. So I was 

>> unable to restart.

>> With the prop stopped again, we went flaps up, full rich,full fine, 

>> 1/2 inch on the throttle and entered a dive.

>> The prop looked as if someone was trying to hand swing it (though at 

>> 4500ft and rapidly decreasing, that was unlikely!)

>> After a few seconds it finally passed TDC, then again, and eventually 

>> it did restart after having lost about 2600ft, and at a speed of 

>> about 130-150 knots.

>> Very quickly it builds up revs, so pulling back on stick & throttle 

>> we were quickly under control. But it is not something you will get 

>> away with under 3000ft.

>> Our final test was to deliberately run out of fuel. With plenty in 

>> the other tank!

>> So we simply cruised around for a further 15 mins or so, until 

>> finally the engine cooughed & spluttered. There was plenty of time to 

>> switch pump on and change tanks and away she went. So no dramas at all.

>> Having completed our tests it was back up to 7000ft t play on the 

>> overcast for a short while.

>> So in conclusion, there is nothing to be feared about running a tank 

>> dry. So long as the starter works, or you have sufficient height.

>> However, if you have totally run out of fuel, it will happily 

>> continue to turn. So bearing in mind you have little or no oil 

>> pressure, then there is very little time to coursen up the prop to 

>> minimise drag. And if you are thinking of saving the engine on your 

>> forced landing, then you need to drop the flap and stall for a while 

>> to get the engine to stop.

>> So what a fun evening. Just wish I had taken the camera with me.

>> If anyone else has done such tests, it would be great to hear from 

>> you. Or if anyone has any other thoughts on such matters.

>> Neil

>> ps- Take off with Sarah PIC at Warbirds over Wanaka a couple of weeks 

>> back. Osh may be bigger, but Wanaka surely has the best setting 

>> anywhere for an airshow.

>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

>

coop85(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Neil,

   Fantastic write up, thanks for all the very valuable information.  I had

planned to do similar tests down the road but your experience builds a lot

of confidence in the mean time.



Just to add to your statement that running a tank dry isn't a dramatic

event, in the Skybolt (same engine) I was told the best (actually only) way

to know the aux tank was dry was to hear the engine start to fade from fuel

starvation.  I was never impressed with that idea, but there's no fuel gauge

for that tank.  Worked great every time.



Marcus



--

Lew Gallagher

Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Engine stop tests.

Hey Neil, et al



A quick question from a newbie.  If the prop/crank is turning, why no oil pressure?



I don't doubt it,  I just don't understand it.  I have no experience with aircraft engines, just automotive that use mechanical driven oil pumps taken off distributor gear, etc. which don't care if the pistons, wheels, starter, etc. is powering it.



I know I can find complete books/manuals, and eventually I will, but it's easier and quicker to ask here.



Thanks, - Lew

_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !

billderou(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a word) is when the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still turning - if you pull the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward. Does the glide range increase with the prop all the way out? Is this in fact the standard emergency procedure with a constant speed prop?

   

  It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could turn the blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.

   

  Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just sufficient to get my high performance signoff.

   

  Bill DeRouchey

  N939SB, flying

  



"John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox"  



Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and

less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James

engine cowl?



The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for

OSH '08.



John



--

ncol(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: Engine stop tests.

The glide definitely got better at full coarse, but when it stopped,  

there was obviously no oil pressure, and so we were unable to change  

pitch. I have no idea if it's standard proceedure, but it was what I  

was taught to do.



Neil

ZK-RVT

Not flying - sitting at a computer instead. However, both Sarah & I  

did our first night flying last night. It was great. Although as  

virtually no one in NZ is RV 10 rated, we had to revert to C152's -  

aarrgghh. Although it was a bit like meeting a crusty old family  

friend. There is no doubt that we are spoiled with Vans. I really did  

miss the EFIS & GPS though.



On 10/04/2008, at 4:09 AM, Bill DeRouchey wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a  

 word) is when the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still  

 turning - if you pull the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward.  

 Does the glide range increase with the prop all the way out? Is this  

 in fact the standard emergency procedure with a constant speed prop?



 It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could  

 turn the blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.



 Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just  

 sufficient to get my high performance signoff.



 Bill DeRouchey

 N939SB, flying

coop85(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Bill,  

    This info is based on my understanding of the props, if I’m off base someone please chime in.  Doesn’t that make you feel confident about what I’m about to write   

   

The non-reversing constant speed props (like on the -10) are designed to go flat pitch in the event of a loss of oil pressure.  The main concern is if you have to execute a go-around or steep climb you want the high RPM available for performance.     

   

I think what you are experiencing is simply increased thrust by going more coarse on the pitch while there’s still oil pressure.  Once the prop stops I seriously doubt there is a significant difference in drag between flat and coarse pitch.   So first, I don’t think you can control the pitch as the engine quits and second I don’t think it would make a difference.  

   

Marcus  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey

 Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:10 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Engine stop tests.  

  

     

Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a word) is when the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still turning - if you pull the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward. Does the glide range increase with the prop all the way out? Is this in fact the standard emergency procedure with a constant speed prop?  

    

   

    

It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could turn the blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.  

    

   

    

Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just sufficient to get my high performance signoff.  

    

   

    

Bill DeRouchey  

    

N939SB, flying  

    



 

 "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:  

  [quote]  

--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" 

 

 Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and

 less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James

 engine cowl?

 

 The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for

 OSH '08.

 

 John

 

 --

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:15 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

Two ways to flatten a coarse pitch to fine pitch in the event of engine failure with a Constant Speed Prop Assembly .  Adequate Oil Pressure or Counter weights. With the choice of no weights, the reaction time on the prop control is a important skill set.  Low pressure – Lots of Luck.  Neil gave a great example of the loss of altitude and significant increase in airframe speed necessary to overcome loss of adequate oil pressure.  

   

Loose your oil….. Think fast, move faster.  Fly the aircraft safely to a walk away landing. – Bob Hoover.  

   

Get some practice with a dead engine in course pitch and again in fine pitch.  It will drive home the importance in no short order.  Practice, practice, practice with lots of altitude and options.  

   

John C  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:31 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Engine stop tests.  

  

   

Bill,  

    This info is based on my understanding of the props, if I’m off base someone please chime in.  Doesn’t that make you feel confident about what I’m about to write   

   

The non-reversing constant speed props (like on the -10) are designed to go flat pitch in the event of a loss of oil pressure.  The main concern is if you have to execute a go-around or steep climb you want the high RPM available for performance.     

   

I think what you are experiencing is simply increased thrust by going more coarse on the pitch while there’s still oil pressure.  Once the prop stops I seriously doubt there is a significant difference in drag between flat and coarse pitch.   So first, I don’t think you can control the pitch as the engine quits and second I don’t think it would make a difference.  

   

Marcus  

     

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill DeRouchey

 Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 11:10 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Engine stop tests.  

  

     

Something that I was playing with (experimenting is too strong a word) is when the engine dies (in my case idling) and is still turning - if you pull the prop out the RV10 takes a leap forward. Does the glide range increase with the prop all the way out? Is this in fact the standard emergency procedure with a constant speed prop?  

    

   

    

It seems that the engine turning would power the oil pump and could turn the blades to full coarse decreasing the drag.  

    

   

    

Any comments? My previous constant speed prop experience was just sufficient to get my high performance signoff.  

    

   

    

Bill DeRouchey  

    

N939SB, flying  

    



 

 "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:  

  [quote]  

--> RV10-List message posted by: "John W. Cox" 

 

 Fabulous detail and invaluable research. We need more of this stuff and

 less accident reporting. By the way, did you go with the stock James

 engine cowl?

 

 The Warbirds acts as breathtaking as the setting at Wanaka. See you for

   OSH '08.

 

 John

 

 --

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Engine stop tests.

I may be mistaken but I beleive that you need 1700+ RPM to get the prop to change pitch, in any direction, regardless of the oil pressure. I understood the govenor needed the 1700 rpm to function and allow the oil pressure to vary the pitch. 

Rick Sked 

40185 



---

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