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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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 Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Door closing |
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Wayne,
I'm not so sure it's slop in the hinge, the door just twists or flexes too easily. Now maybe a set of guide pins that engage the door sill, pointing straight into the cabin from the outside may be a good option. With close tolerance's this would stop forward and aft movement of the door and align it in the correct position for latching as long as the door was completely closed and flush.
Rick Sked
40185
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: Door closing |
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Another thing to look for on the front pins is the length of the bevel. Van's precut bevel is the same for both front and rear. The front bevel effectively requires an insertion of about .75" just to have a full diameter of tube in the door jamb . I am going to remake the front pins using a new set of rear pins cut to size for the front with a much shorter bevel. In addition since there is already a tapped tube I will insert a 5/16" stainless steel set screw with an allen wrench to a depth where the portion of the tube which penetrates the door jamb will be solid aluminum and steel. Also in case anyone is wondering, I contacted the NTSB and verbally confirmed that for both 410MR and 210HM both doors were at the crash site.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:10 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door closing
Wayne,
I'm not so sure it's slop in the hinge, the door just twists or flexes too easily. Now maybe a set of guide pins that engage the door sill, pointing straight into the cabin from the outside may be a good option. With close tolerance's this would stop forward and aft movement of the door and align it in the correct position for latching as long as the door was completely closed and flush.
Rick Sked
40185
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acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
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| Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: Door closing |
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I’d have to agree as far as the bevel is concerned that it is ultimately the amount of full diameter tubing that you need plenty of to ensure safely engaging the metal frame as your last line of defense.
One of the reasons they can end up too short is the amount of retraction you may need to clear the cabin edge and we cut them down to suit our circumstance given correct centering and placing of the door.
I disagree with John C on the taper orientation. I understand the front door scenario but I think the taper in this case is to encourage alignment. It would serve no purpose on the reverse side and wouldn’t need to be there.
I’d seriously consider the wisdom of an internal pin as this may well add its own problems with any leverage by the steel internal to the aluminium tubing. This leverage may be imparted at every closing or opening of the door with any sideways pressure and encourage a crack.
You may be better off making the entire pin of steel. My worry with this is it may be unnecessarily strong and may inhibit you kicking out the door in any need to escape.
John 40315
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill
Sent: Friday, 11 April 2008 8:51 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Door closing
Another thing to look for on the front pins is the length of the bevel. Van's precut bevel is the same for both front and rear. The front bevel effectively requires an insertion of about .75" just to have a full diameter of tube in the door jamb . I am going to remake the front pins using a new set of rear pins cut to size for the front with a much shorter bevel. In addition since there is already a tapped tube I will insert a 5/16" stainless steel set screw with an allen wrench to a depth where the portion of the tube which penetrates the door jamb will be solid aluminum and steel. Also in case anyone is wondering, I contacted the NTSB and verbally confirmed that for both 410MR and 210HM both doors were at the crash site.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2008 3:10 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door closing
Wayne,
I'm not so sure it's slop in the hinge, the door just twists or flexes too easily. Now maybe a set of guide pins that engage the door sill, pointing straight into the cabin from the outside may be a good option. With close tolerance's this would stop forward and aft movement of the door and align it in the correct position for latching as long as the door was completely closed and flush.
Rick Sked
40185
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: Door closing |
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I think this idea with additional alignment pins pointing into the cabin into the sill would be great.
As for door stiffness, I remember Chris Johnson's comments on this and he was thinking about injecting expandable foam after the doors were laminated. I was against that idea, but from this idea what I did was to use two additional points where the inner and outer door shells laminate together.
I placed a 5" X 7" block of Spyder foam, Aerospace Composite Products, in the rear area of the door, just above where the aft pin goes in. The second area was my hardwood block 3" X 3", above the fore pin, this to be used as a hard point for a locking system. There was enough of the 3D glass in the kit to make these mods. My doors are very stiff and any flexing will only be from the top half of the door, some which will help the door as it comes down and closes in that last 1/4 inch.
The bevel pointing out is in IMO is to help suck the door in on closing the latch. Once the latch is closed, the pins should only have a shear load on them, but depending on their fit, it should only be the force used to overcome any door warp, sealing and then the inflight, pulling pressure on the door. The tighter the door fit atound its' perimeter, the less side to side action and with the door stiffness, there should be very little chance of movement. That is as long as the door is properly latched.
John G 409 Skiing
[quote] Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:10:13 -0400
From: ricksked(at)embarqmail.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Door closing
.ExternalClass {font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:12pt;color:#000000;} Wayne,
I'm not so sure it's slop in the hinge, the door just twists or flexes too easily. Now maybe a set of guide pins that engage the door sill, pointing straight into the cabin from the outside may be a good option. With close tolerance's this would stop forward and aft movement of the door and align it in the correct position for latching as long as the door was completely closed and flush.
Rick Sked
40185
---
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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