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Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

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dcw(at)mnwing.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:08 pm Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

Fellow Listers:



I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed electronic

ignition.  I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.  Lightspeed

calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose).  I need something

small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4.  For those that

have done this, what backup battery did you use?



Thanks



Doug Weiler

N722DW, 275 hrs

martin(at)gbonline.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

Doug,

I have the dual lightspeed set up with two batteries from B&C electronics. 

It works good.  However, I believe that Bill Bainbridge of B&C now has a set 

up for one battery with a neat miniature standby alternator to fit on the 

vacuum drive.  He also has a wiring diagram  to facilitate this set up. 

This allows a weight savings and also eliminates periodic battery 

replacement.

Dick Martin

RV8 N233M

the fast one

---

maurv8(at)bresnan.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:12 pm Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

Doug



This is the one I'll be using:



http://www.batteryweb.com/powersonicdetail.cfm?Model=3DPS-1252&tbl=3DPowerSonicSLA12v

Mauri Morin

Polson, MT

RV-8 N808M (reserved)

C180 N2125Z Flying

SEMPER FI

n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

 	  Quote: 	
		  SEMPER FI 	




Semper Fi



1967-1972

Do not archive

_________________
Milt

gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:42 am Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

Doug:

 

  No offense to anyone, but people are going crazy with electrical stuff 

and they are being overly influenced by a few sources. Here is the deal:

 

ONE:

IF you talk to Klaus the owner / inventor or the Lightspeed he does NOT 

recommend dual batteries. You already have a BIG huge main battery 

capable of starting the airplane. He does show a simple dual battery set-

up, but it is not required. 

 

TWO:

The LS ignition uses VERY VERY little current (amps) and works on 4V to 

35V !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a large operating voltage range! No other ignition does this.

 

THREE:

Forget dual alternators and all the crap. It's B&C (who sells these 

standby alternators) and Bob N. of Aerolelectric List, whose whole world 

revolves around the electrical system PUSHING this. Bob's ideas tend  

to push people to make their electrical system overly complicated, 

expensive and heavy. Unless you are flying a $30k panel, IFR with an 

electrically dependant automotive engine (EFI) than forget it.

 

FOUR:

THERE HAS NEVER been a LYCOMING taken out of the SKY because 

the main battery failed or was not available. People will tell you they have 

scary scary stories they **heard** of. I know, they are urban legend and 

exaggerated. Ask who ever tells you a story to give you detailed FACTS. 

They can't. The Lightspeed runs on voltages from 4V to 35V. READ 4V to 35V. 

(If you push for detail, the stories have more holes in it than it makes sense.)

 

 

5 TH:

YOU DON'T **NEED** TWO BATTRIES OR TWO ALTERNATOR. The LS 

ignition can fly all day on the main battery, fill the tanks and fly another 

day, just on the battery. You do not have Electronic Fuel Injection and 

electric only fuel pumps like AUTO engines. ONE ALTERNATOR, ONE 

BATTERY is more than acceptable.

 



  LAST:

Just wire the LS ignitions DIRECT to the battery and you will be fine. 

Don't fall pray to the OVER DONE OVER COMPLICATED OVER 

COSTLY HEAVY electrical systems. YOU HAVE A SINGLE ENGINE 

PLANE FOR GOSH SAKES. You have a better chance of the Prop 

falling off the engine than the battery not being their to get you on the 

ground. Write me off line and we can talk how to wire to best assure 

your IGNITION gets power, when and if you decide to get the EI.



   

   

  Also some may suggest the P/E-mag. They are nice but they are lower 

  peformance EI than the Lightspeed. Don't consider MIX and match of 

  Lightspeed with P-mag because you will not get the gain in performance 

  a second ignitnon would normaly give.

   

   

Cheers George, RV-4, RV-7, B757

 

 

Subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI 

From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> 

 


 

Fellow Listers: 

 

I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed  

electronic ignition.  I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.  

Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose).  I need  

something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4.  For 

those that have done this, what backup battery did you use? 

 

Thanks 

 

Doug Weiler 

N722DW, 275 hrs

   

  

 



		

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

Doug,



Don't let anybody tell you what to do or not to do. Do some research and

make up your own mind. 



If you think that 2 batteries are a good idea for 2 electronic

ignitions, that's what you should do. I agree with this idea myself. I

like the idea of having a second battery, not so much for capacity

reasons, but for redundancy. I intend to connect my dual lightspeeds to

separate batteries at the battery terminals in my RV-6 project so as to

eliminate as many single points of failure as possible. I plan to

connect both batteries to the alternator with separate contactors so

that both can be charged by and isolated from the system in case of

alternator failure.



4.5 ah should be plenty to keep one ignition alive until you run out of

gas if the battery is in good condition and you disconnect it from the

main buss soon after alternator failure. You should probably have a low

voltage light to tell you if that happens. You might want to replace the

battery yearly to be sure it has enough capacity to do the job if called

upon. If you are using a 25 ah battery as your main, you could

substitute 2- 16 ah PC-680 odyssey batteries for more net capacity and

not too much extra weight. I'm planning to run that setup and replace

one of the batteries every year so that neither is ever more than two

years old, but then I'm going to have an all electric panel to feed and

care for, so I need more ampere hours capacity than you might. 



Check out:	http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11E.pdf

and look at Z-28 and Z-30 for ideas. You could also subscribe to the

aeroelectric.list at Matronics for more ideas.



By the way, we're running one Lightspeed and one mag now on our 6a and

it works great. If the mag quits, well probably throw on another

Lightspeed and work up a second battery. The one we have is crank

triggered. If we get another it will be hall effect in the mag drive.

Again, no single point of failure to take out both ignitions.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke

Fellow Listers: 

 

I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed  

electronic ignition.  I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.  

Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose).  I

need  

something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4.

For 

those that have done this, what backup battery did you use? 

 

Thanks 

 

Doug Weiler 

N722DW, 275 hrs

   

  

 



		

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

"gmcjetpilot" and others ...



Although Klaus may not "recommend" dual batteries, there is a GOOD reason to

have a small dedicated battery in some cases.



My friend has a LightSpeed + a non-impulse mag. Using a PC680 and a starter

I do not remember, there were times wherein te ONLY way he could crank was

AFTER the release of the starter button.



He and I MEASURED the voltage and at a voltage that we THINK we measured

much ABOVE 4 volts, his engine would NOT crank.



We tried adding a capacity to store a just enough to get things started but

in the end a small battery was the answer.



And yes, we did talk to Klaus. He first figured we wired something wrong.

(We had not). The then stated the voltages at which the unit theoretically

works. In our case it would not CRANK at a voltage higher than specified.

With the battery it all works fine.



Now this is not LS or Klaus bashing. I have one in the RV I am building now.

The reason for the low voltage was my friend's starter dragged it down, but

hey, not all starters are whizz-bang, super-duper crank-em up.



FOr a lot of other reasons, my underconstruction plane has dual PC680's but

if I were building a simpler plane with the LS, I would add the little

battey, if for no other reason than peace of mind.

James.



On 3/1/06, gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 <SNIP>


	




ONE:

 	  Quote: 	
		   IF you talk to Klaus the owner / inventor or the Lightspeed he does NOT

 recommend dual batteries. You already have a BIG huge main battery

 capable of starting the airplane. He does show a simple dual battery set-

 up, but it is not required.



 TWO:

 The LS ignition uses VERY VERY little current (amps) and works on 4V to

 35V !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a large operating voltage range! No other

 ignition does this.



 <SNIP>


	




This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at

james(at)nextupventures.com .

gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:12 am Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

Calm down everyone, no one is going to get hurt if there are no sudden moves! 

   

  Look no one is saying DON'T put two batteries, but it may not be necessary. What ever sparks your rocket.

   

  As far as 4 volts during START! I call foul, no offense. I can believe 8 volts but 4 volts? If you saw 4 volts than there was something odd going on with a weak battery or starter (which I think you mentions was the culprit).

   

  However I agree a dedicated Aux battery should keep the EI voltage higher during start, since the Aux battery is not being drawn down for start.  

   

  The lesson learned here is have a healthy battery. The MAIN battery is the key to your whole electrical system. Don't run it till it is ragged. Replace it preventably. 

   

  Here is LS dual battery wiring:

  http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/Manuals/PS_Diagram.htm

   

  You could get by with a  2.3Ah or 3Ah battery to drive one in case of emergency.

  Here is a 3Ah for less than 2.9 lbs:

  http://www.batteryweb.com/productpics/BB/BP3-12.jpg

  2.3 Ah at 2.1 lbs

  http://www.batteryweb.com/productpics/BB/BP2.3-12.jpg

  2.2 Ah at 1.9 lbs

  http://www.batteryweb.com/productpics/powersonicpics/PS-1220.gif

   

   

   I stand corrected. Looking at LS install manual, it recommends an AUX battery with dual EI.  I just don't see the main battery going away. I know Klaus does not use a AUX battery on his VariEZ last I heard. Bottom line is do what makes you happy and if a little AUX battery works than do it. As I show a 2 Ah would drive one EI to get you on the ground. I think 4.5Ah is on the large side for just an EI AUX battery.

   

   

  Cheers George

   

   

  From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI






"gmcjetpilot" and others ...



Although Klaus may not "recommend" dual batteries, there is a GOOD 

reason to have a small dedicated battery in some cases.



My friend has a LightSpeed + a non-impulse mag. Using a PC680 and a 

starter I do not remember, there were times wherein te ONLY way he could crank 

was AFTER the release of the starter button.



He and I MEASURED the voltage and at a voltage that we THINK we 

measured much ABOVE 4 volts, his engine would NOT crank.



We tried adding a capacity to store a just enough to get things started 

but in the end a small battery was the answer.



And yes, we did talk to Klaus. He first figured we wired something 

wrong. (We had not). The then stated the voltages at which the unit 

theoretically works. In our case it would not CRANK at a voltage higher than 

specified. With the battery it all works fine.



Now this is not LS or Klaus bashing. I have one in the RV I am building 

now.The reason for the low voltage was my friend's starter dragged it down, 

but hey, not all starters are whizz-bang, super-duper crank-em up.



For a lot of other reasons, my underconstruction plane has dual PC680's 

but if I were building a simpler plane with the LS, I would add the little

battey, if for no other reason than peace of mind.





		

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:34 am Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

We're all cool.   

Just for clarification ...



The voltage was ABOVE 4v. Somewhere between 6 and 8v .... I just don't

remember the exact number at present.



The reason I posted this is because my friend wentr around and around for a

while with Klaus on the matter. When we took reasl measurements and

addressed that, the problem was solved, despite what Klaus felt should have

been occurring for that particular case.



James

On 3/2/06, gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 Calm down everyone, no one is going to get hurt if there are no sudden

 moves! 



   Look no one is saying DON'T put two batteries, but it may not be

 necessary. What ever sparks your rocket.



   As far as 4 volts during START! I call foul, no offense. I can believe 8

 volts but 4 volts? If you saw 4 volts than there was something odd going on

 with a weak battery or starter (which I think you mentions was the culprit).



   However I agree a dedicated Aux battery should keep the EI voltage

 higher during start, since the Aux battery is not being drawn down for

 start.


	




<SNIP>





--

This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at

james(at)nextupventures.com .

ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI

 	  Quote: 	
		  He and I MEASURED the voltage and at a voltage that we THINK we measured

much ABOVE 4 volts, his engine would NOT crank.


	


I have an impulse mag and LS EI.  During my condition inspection my

A&P measured voltages at several places in the starting circuit.  My

"recollection" is that at the starter it was around 7 volts. There was also

a drop at the solenoid.



The solenoid to starter wire was #4 and was replaced with #2.  The continuous

duty solenoid was replaced with a starter type solenoid.   Although the

voltage at the starter is better now the prop can still "stall" on a 

compression

stroke but after a short pause it starts fine.   (wood prop, PC680 battery)



I did buy a PC 925 battery to replace the PC680 sometime this year and

will see how that improves the starting.



PS, the voltage at the battery was also dropping to the point where Klaus

says that kickback "may" be a problem...although I never have had that

happen.



Ron Lee

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