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Model 4 rudder gap

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Catz631(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Model 4 rudder gap

I am in the process of filling the large gap between the rudder and vertical stabilizer on my Kitfox.I have obtained some foam pieces for this purpose but before gluing them to the leading edge of the rudder and covering I thought I would write the group and see if anyone had done it and is it worth it.

  I am tired of looking at that 1 1/2 to 2 inch gap and if for no other reason then looks I  want to fill it. I have heard that it improves the rudder authority (although mine seems to be fine) Has anyone none this? I intend to epoxy the shaped foam pieces to the leading edge of the rudder, cover with 6" tape and then respray the covered area but before I screw it up, I thought I would check with you guys

                       Thanks !

                                           Dick Maddux

                                           Fox 4 

                                           Pensacola,Fl



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kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Model 4 rudder gap

I believe that is standard procedure on the classic 4.  I have been looking for a pic but cant seem to find one.  I will take one the next time I am at the airport if I can remember.  In my classic 4 the foam was placed on the trailing edge of the vert fin but a pic is worth a thousand words.  

         

  

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:27 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Model 4 rudder gap  

  

     

I am in the process of filling the large gap between the rudder and vertical stabilizer on my Kitfox.I have obtained some foam pieces for this purpose but before gluing them to the leading edge of the rudder and covering I thought I would write the group and see if anyone had done it and is it worth it.  

    

 I am tired of looking at that 1 1/2 to 2 inch gap and if for no other reason then looks I  want to fill it. I have heard that it improves the rudder authority (although mine seems to be fine) Has anyone none this? I intend to epoxy the shaped foam pieces to the leading edge of the rudder, cover with 6" tape and then respray the covered area but before I screw it up, I thought I would check with you guys  

    

                      Thanks !  

    

                                          Dick Maddux  

    

                                          Fox 4   

    

                                          Pensacola,Fl  

  



 

         

  

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Model 4 rudder gap

[quote="Catz631(at)aol.com"]I am in the process of filling the large gap between the rudder and vertical stabilizer on my Kitfox.I have obtained some foam pieces for this purpose but before gluing them to the leading edge of the rudder and covering I thought I would write the group and see if anyone had done it and is it worth it.

  I am tired of looking at that 1 1/2 to 2 inch gap and if for no other reason then looks I  want to fill it. I have heard that it improves the rudder authority (although mine seems to be fine) Has anyone none this? I intend to epoxy the shaped foam pieces to the leading edge of the rudder, cover with 6" tape and then respray the covered area but before I screw it up, I thought I would check with you guys

            ï¿½          Thanks !

            ï¿½            ï¿½            ï¿½    Dick Maddux

            ï¿½            ï¿½            ï¿½    Fox 4 

            ï¿½            ï¿½            ï¿½    Pensacola,Fl



   	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




Dick,



Good idea, it looks much better and reduces drag to fill the gap.  The foam gap seal instructions in the manual say it should be epoxied to the vertical fin tail post.  Also, I think the leading edge of the rudder will swing out of alignment with the fin if the gap seal is attached to the rudder.



I cut straight edged  rectangular openings in the foam to clear the rod ends.  later I saw a Kitfox with nice smooth curved openings around the rod ends.  That looks better.  Unless you are really good at fabric work you will need bias tape to finish it with the curved openings.  Thats the way I would do it if I built another plane.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Sbennett3(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Model 4 rudder gap

The gap on the classic and the 4/1200 are  different. My classic speedwing only has 1/2 inch gap. I thought about sealing,  but it flies just fine without. If I had the 1 1/2 inch gap like the 4/1200's  I'd definitely seal.  Steve Bennett



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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: Model 4 rudder gap

Hi Dick-

I've enclosed a picture of my vertical stab when I added some  

airfoils, and a gap-filling method that I used during my building. It  

may be more than you want to do, but thought I'd include it for your  

edification. After I shot these pictures, I added a vertical  

stiffener to each horizontal rib, as has been done on the 2nd rib  

from the top on the rudder. The formed piece is aluminum sheet, and  

the rudder pieces are balsa wood on the sides, with the foam stuff  

that Skystar included with the kit, sandwiched between.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/490+ hrs



On Apr 14, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Catz631(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I am in the process of filling the large gap between the rudder and  

 vertical stabilizer on my Kitfox.I have obtained some foam pieces  

 for this purpose but before gluing them to the leading edge of the  

 rudder and covering I thought I would write the group and see if  

 anyone had done it and is it worth it.

  I am tired of looking at that 1 1/2 to 2 inch gap and if for no  

 other reason then looks I  want to fill it. I have heard that it  

 improves the rudder authority (although mine seems to be fine) Has  

 anyone none this? I intend to epoxy the shaped foam pieces to the  

 leading edge of the rudder, cover with 6" tape and then respray the  

 covered area but before I screw it up, I thought I would check with  

 you guys

                       Thanks !

                                           Dick Maddux

                                           Fox 4

                                           Pensacola,Fl

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vertical_stab.jpg

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

epnewgard(at)fairpoint.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Model 4 rudder gap

Anothe option that I used on my mod 4 and on previously owned gliders is to use about a 3" strip of fabric glued on one side of the fin and the other side of the rudder.  Very light weight and easy to rig.  You might want to paint the strip before applying and contact cement in place.

 

On Apr 14, 2008, at 2:49 PM, kirk hull wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I believe that is standard procedure on the classic 4.  I have been looking for a pic but cant seem to find one.  I will take one the next time I am at the airport if I can remember.  In my classic 4 the foam was placed on the trailing edge of the vert fin but a pic is worth a thousand words.

 



From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Catz631(at)aol.com (Catz631(at)aol.com)

Sent: Monday, April 14, 2008 4:27 PM

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Model 4 rudder gap



 

I am in the process of filling the large gap between the rudder and vertical stabilizer on my Kitfox.I have obtained some foam pieces for this purpose but before gluing them to the leading edge of the rudder and covering I thought I would write the group and see if anyone had done it and is it worth it.



 I am tired of looking at that 1 1/2 to 2 inch gap and if for no other reason then looks I  want to fill it. I have heard that it improves the rudder authority (although mine seems to be fine) Has anyone none this? I intend to epoxy the shaped foam pieces to the leading edge of the rudder, cover with 6" tape and then respray the covered area but before I screw it up, I thought I would check with you guys



                      Thanks !



                                          Dick Maddux



                                          Fox 4



                                          Pensacola,Fl



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Catz631(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: Model 4 rudder gap

Lynn and the rest of the group,

  

        Thanks for all of your input! I knew I would probably get it backwards on the installation although I was told if I install the foam on the leading edge of the rudder it would be "like power steering." My rudder control is really no problem now so I will probably reverse my thinking and put the foam on the fin. Lynn, I now know why the foam pieces that Debra sent me are shaped the way they were. Your picture shows a different set up entirely for the gap seal. I don't have the piece that fits on the fin that the foam 'cups' in to. Mine looks like a simple cub fin. I had to cut the foam in half (I wondered why it was so big) in order to close the gap and I  cupped the other end of the foam with sandpaper on a piece of tubing so it will have a nice glue joint.

    I have sent my elevator off to have a trim tab installed and am excited about getting it back so that I can get back in the air. The weather is nice here in northern Florida. Soon we will have the "dog days " of summer and I will be miserable again. 

   At the same time I sent of my "quad" gauge to Westach to have them recalibrate my oil pressure gauge (it was reading 12 lbs. too low) and paint the Rotax markings on the gauge.

   I also installed the "King fox" tires (really Nankang 800) and am eager to try them. I had to cut off a piece of the gear fairings and refabric in order to fit them. They are fat! They look exactly like a pair of doughnuts and would make Homer Simpson proud.

   I will give a report on my new electric elevator trim (control on the stick grip) and tires when I am back in the air again.

     Thanks again!

                                                      Dick Maddux

                                                      Fox 4-1200

                                                      Pensacola, Fl



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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: Model 4 rudder gap

Dick-

I learned from this group that if the rudder and fin are left  

"skinny", like a Cub, that the tail will "hunt", that is, move from  

side to side a bit, looking for neutral air. Others on the group say  

they notice no such hunting. I just didn't like the skinny look, and  

wanted to make the verticals fatter, for looks if for no other  

reason. I just eyeballed the shape of the ribs that I made, sort of  

following what Skystar offered, but making mine a little less fat. I  

drew up a shape for that aluminum "female" piece, and had a local  

sheet metal shop bend it up. After that part was done, I added a cap  

on top of the fin and rudder of foam and balsa, and filed to shape.



I heard (from the grapevine) about your elevator trim mod...you'll  

love it. I have my control on the panel as a rocker switch.



By the way, I now have my TruTrak ADI installed and it works great.  

If I ever get....no, better make that WHEN I get stupid again, it'll  

be nice to be able to have a reference for pitch and roll, and  

direction, all on the same gauge. Thanks for your input on that matter.



Lynn Matteson

Grass Lake, Michigan

Kitfox IV Speedster  w/Jabiru 2200

flying w/490+ hrs



On Apr 15, 2008, at 8:28 AM, Catz631(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn and the rest of the group,



        Thanks for all of your input! I knew I would probably get it  

 backwards on the installation although I was told if I install the  

 foam on the leading edge of the rudder it would be "like power  

 steering." My rudder control is really no problem now so I will  

 probably reverse my thinking and put the foam on the fin. Lynn, I  

 now know why the foam pieces that Debra sent me are shaped the way  

 they were. Your picture shows a different set up entirely for the  

 gap seal. I don't have the piece that fits on the fin that the foam  

 'cups' in to. Mine looks like a simple cub fin. I had to cut the  

 foam in half (I wondered why it was so big) in order to close the  

 gap and I  cupped the other end of the foam with sandpaper on a  

 piece of tubing so it will have a nice glue joint.

    I have sent my elevator off to have a trim tab installed and am  

 excited about getting it back so that I can get back in the air.  

 The weather is nice here in northern Florida. Soon we will have the  

 "dog days " of summer and I will be miserable again.

   At the same time I sent of my "quad" gauge to Westach to have  

 them recalibrate my oil pressure gauge (it was reading 12 lbs. too  

 low) and paint the Rotax markings on the gauge.

   I also installed the "King fox" tires (really Nankang 800) and am  

 eager to try them. I had to cut off a piece of the gear fairings  

 and refabric in order to fit them. They are fat! They look exactly  

 like a pair of doughnuts and would make Homer Simpson proud.

   I will give a report on my new electric elevator trim (control on  

 the stick grip) and tires when I am back in the air again.

     Thanks again!

                                                      Dick Maddux

                                                      Fox 4-1200

                                                      Pensacola, Fl



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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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