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kearney(at)shaw.ca
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 Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Hi
As I look at the tunnel in my -10, I am contemplating how I will be able to *easily* access the fuel pumps / filters that after the panel is installed. Keeping in mind John Cox’s admonition to think about maintenance access when building, I have wondered about the use of quick disconnects on the fuel lines so the fuel pumps / filters can be easily removed / installed. I can’t image how I would be able to connect these things in the future.
I see that A/C Spruce sells experimental quick disconnects and that there are several racing sites that have what appear to be even higher quality units.
Has anyone used these in their a/c? Are there any reasons why they should not be used?
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
C-GCWZ (reserved)
[quote][b]
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Dave(at)aircraftersllc.co
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:12 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Les,
It's really not that bad a job. The hardest part is getting the tunnel cover off. You might consider leaving a few of the screws out towards the front. That and an electric screwdriver will have the filter serviced in a few minutes. The stock design is simple and light.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters LLC
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA
831-722-9141
831-750-0284 CL
www.AirCraftersLLC.com
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:20 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects
Hi
As I look at the tunnel in my -10, I am contemplating how I will be able to *easily* access the fuel pumps / filters that after the panel is installed. Keeping in mind John Cox’s admonition to think about maintenance access when building, I have wondered about the use of quick disconnects on the fuel lines so the fuel pumps / filters can be easily removed / installed. I can’t image how I would be able to connect these things in the future.
I see that A/C Spruce sells experimental quick disconnects and that there are several racing sites that have what appear to be even higher quality units.
Has anyone used these in their a/c? Are there any reasons why they should not be used?
Inquiring minds need to know
Les Kearney
#40643
C-GCWZ (reserved)
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
[b]
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Kearney(at)shaw.ca
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Hi Dave
6nbsp;
My setup is a bit different E I am installing an Eggenfellner E6Ti (3 E6l) engine E My fuel pumps and filters are a different from the stock vans equipment E
6nbsp;
Looking at the tunnel C they will be a pain to service E I am not as flexible as I once was E E E E
6nbsp;
Cheers
6nbsp;
Les
6nbsp;
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Besides the quality build and great archival photos, Scott Schmidt was one of the first to consider removal for serving of fuel parts - using a side access panel. His solution was simple and a quick look at Deems site shows a similar build which values servicing ease considerations.
The eyes of a manufacturer are often from a different perspective than the maintenance technician who follows into perpetuity after the DAR signoff. The later often using the name of the first (frequently and with color)for failing to take into consideration maintenance access during the build. When it is yourself, it often follows with a whap to the forehead and something that sounds like "I could have had a V-8". (vegetable juice that is)
The easiest and most glaring item seen in tech inspections is the large number of builders who do not double back safety wire and learn the consequence on penetration of their fingers or arms to service something - down the road. Boeing has been an example of design which values service in the field.
John C
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of LES KEARNEY
Sent: Sat 4/19/2008 9:17 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: RE: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects
Hi Dave
My setup is a bit different. I am installing an Eggenfellner E6Ti (3.6l) engine. My fuel pumps and filters are a different from the stock vans equipment.
Looking at the tunnel, they will be a pain to service. I am not as flexible as I once was....
Cheers
Les
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:10 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Don't forget me!!!! I did it too!!!! and before the tunnel was built....VERY easy to do then. But then I worked on aircraft that were designed by very bright people that NEVER had to work on them after they designed them.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Honestly, stay away from QD's. You want a good mechanical, nut to fitting connection. Make an access panel on one side of the tunnel large enough to ummm..."easily" get to your filter and pump. I have the Accuracy console and panel...nothing is easy to access after it's installed but my filter and pump are. I made a 12" by I think 8" access panel on the left side of the tunnel....so did Deem's and Scott Schmidt. My AN wrenches make it pretty easy to undo the nuts and remove the filter. This really should be a must do mod. Makes it very simple to access the stuff in the tunnel...even if you don't have the console setup.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
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kearney(at)shaw.ca
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Rick
Why the aversion to quick disconnects?
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked
Sent: April-20-08 8:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects
Honestly, stay away from QD's. You want a good mechanical, nut to fitting connection. Make an access panel on one side of the tunnel large enough to ummm..."easily" get to your filter and pump. I have the Accuracy console and panel...nothing is easy to access after it's installed but my filter and pump are. I made a 12" by I think 8" access panel on the left side of the tunnel....so did Deem's and Scott Schmidt. My AN wrenches make it pretty easy to undo the nuts and remove the filter. This really should be a must do mod. Makes it very simple to access the stuff in the tunnel...even if you don't have the console setup.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
---
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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Les,
My main reason is how often do you need to "quickly" disconnect a normally permanent setup. QD's are great for pulling the snow plow off and installing the forklift assembly on your tractor but why compromise a critical system such as a fuel supply line. Sure race vehicles use them for ease of R & Ring parts between runs or in the middle of a race but you should not have to pull your fuel filter except for scheduled maint. 50, 100 hour or the annual inspection. You will have plenty of time to remove it. The standard AN nut has only one moving part, the nut. Your QD fittings have springs, retaining rings and collars. All of these are points for failure. The flared fitting has a much better ability to seal over time than the QD fitting, FWIW, I have had two air QD's fail over the past few years, nothing major..just a slow leak,,,,but in a fuel supply system...pretty major. Just my two Penny's worth....The more moving parts, the greater chance for failure. I think 7 or 8 turns on a standard AN nut is plenty quick for me. I have never seen a quick disconnect on any aircraft fitting except for O2 filling valves, nitrogen pressure systems for EPU's and fuel truck hookups.....everything else was just plain ol' AN fittings...now don't get me started on banjo fittings...way to many nights getting them to seal and in the long run...we always changed the banjo fitting....it had moving parts. 
Rick Sked
40185
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: Fuel Line Quick Disconnects |
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I very much agree with Rick here. Since you are already removing your
tunnel covers at the condition inspection to inspect everything else in
the tunnel (or should be, at least), the fuel filter is really not that
difficult to remove. Just make sure you put some paper towels under the
ends to catch the fuel that drains out. That area houses the only part of
your elevator control system that is safety-wired, which is a good reason
to inspect if carefully and not just spray a little LPS-2 on it. The
inspection panel on the side of the tunnel is not a bad idea, but
certainly not required. I would consider it somewhat careless to just use
the inspection panel to remove the filter at the condition inspection and
not remove the tunnel cover for the reason mentioned above, and to check
for fuel stains that would represent possible leaks elsewhere in the
tunnel fuel system.
Just my $.02, but quick disconnects to ease the inspection of the fuel
filter every year or even every 100 hours would certainly not be worth the
added risk IMHO. If one fails in a race car, you lose your race. If one
fails in your airplane, you very possibly lose your life.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
352-427-0285
Rick Sked wrote:
[quote]
Les,
My main reason is how often do you need to "quickly" disconnect a normally
permanent setup. QD's are great for pulling the snow plow off and
installing the forklift assembly on your tractor but why compromise a
critical system such as a fuel supply line. Sure race vehicles use them
for ease of R & Ring parts between runs or in the middle of a race but you
should not have to pull your fuel filter except for scheduled maint. 50,
100 hour or the annual inspection. You will have plenty of time to remove
it. The standard AN nut has only one moving part, the nut. Your QD
fittings have springs, retaining rings and collars. All of these are
points for failure. The flared fitting has a much better ability to seal
over time than the QD fitting, FWIW, I have had two air QD's fail over the
past few years, nothing major...just a slow leak,,,,but in a fuel supply
system...pretty major. Just my two Penny's worth....The more moving parts,
the greater chance for failure. I think 7 or 8 turns on a standard AN nut
is plenty quick for me. I have never seen a quick disconnect on any
aircraft fitting except for O2 filling valves, nitrogen pressure systems
for EPU's and fuel truck hookups.....everything else was just plain ol'
AN fittings...now don't get me started on banjo fittings...way to many
nights getting them to seal and in the long run...we always changed the
banjo fitting....it had moving parts.
Rick Sked
40185
---
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