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williamtsullivan(at)att.n Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: tail feathers |
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How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be? Mine seem a bit slack. The plan got flipped in a storm, so I may not be looking at the right parts- I don't have another Kolb around to compare with.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
[quote][b]
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George Alexander
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 245 Location: SW Florida
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: Re: tail feathers |
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote: | How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be?
<<<<SNIP>>>>.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
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Almost tight enough for Travis Brown to strum a rendition of "My Old Kentucky Home" like it was a "banjer".
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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_________________ George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net |
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: tail feathers |
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I turned the stainless steel brackets on the lower bolt on the vertical stabilizer so that they came off the "bottom" of the bolt, and everything tightened right up. They almost feel like they were made that way. I would have made them to come off the "top" of the bolt. How are they supposed to mount?
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
[quote][b]
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mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.co Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: tail feathers |
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Bill,
There was a discussion about a year ago regarding how tight you should have your tail wires.
First of all...great, if you have them installed correctly. But, beyond just that, like George said, they need to be very tight (you should be able to "strum" them)!
Evidently, some Kolbers have found that "less than tight tail wires" allow the plane to have way too much "play" in the flight controls. Aim for the "tightest" setting you can manage by hand.
Mike Welch
MkIII (receiving Poly Fiber)
________________________________
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 03:02:12 -0700
From: williamtsullivan(at)att.net
Subject: tail feathers
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be? Mine seem a bit slack. The plan got flipped in a storm, so I may not be looking at the right parts- I don't have another Kolb around to compare with.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
_________________________________________________________________
Get in touch in an instant. Get Windows Live Messenger now.
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: tail feathers |
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Now I just have to figure out what is wrong. Remember- the plane got flipped over, so something is not right.
do not archive
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
[quote][b]
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icrashrc
Joined: 16 Mar 2006 Posts: 247 Location: Mishawaka, In
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: Re: tail feathers |
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I asked Homer about that once. He said the wires should be tight enough that you can just barely tighten the wingnut on the bottom bolt by hand.
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_________________ Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
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beauford173(at)verizon.ne Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: tail feathers |
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Brother Sullivan:
If I understand you correctly, you pivoted the stainless brackets around the lower bolt...the one at the bottom of the vertical stab... so that they point downward, thus gaining additional tension on the cable...
I would suggest you might not want to do this... the primary reason being that the friction on the bolt head is all that would prevent the bracket from gradually yielding to the cable tension and pivoting back around toward the 12 o'clock position... I believe any inspector would consider this be an unairworthy condition which would slacken the cable to a dangerous extent....it does not take much slack in the tail cable to ruin a person's day.... .
If the tail cable will not tighten up sufficiently to "thrum" a nice "middle G" note, something else is going on... the cable crimp ferrules are slipping, something is installed backwards, or something could be bent. The brackets at the top of the stab should point down and the ones at the bottom bolt should point up. I highly recommend you not attempt flight with the machine until you have resolved this issue and have a nice tight cable IAW the Kolb plans, not by misaligning the brackets.
...worth what ye paid fer it...
Beauford, the aluminum butcher of Brandon, FL
FF 076
[quote] ---
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: tail feathers |
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Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the roll-over. I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful re-bending.
Thanks.
do not archive
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
[quote][b]
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1planeguy(at)kilocharlie. Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: tail feathers |
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william sullivan wrote:
Quote: | Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the
roll-over. I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful
re-bending.
Thanks.
do not archive
Be careful of the "careful re-bending". If you are referring to the
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little stainless tangs that have one hole on one end and 4 staggered
holes on the other that facilitate adjustment they are not very fond of
being rebent. RANS put out an AD about these tangs having some failures
from being improperly bent or abused (some folks think those cables are
a convenient handle to pull on to move the plane around). Bent and
set-up like the Kolb plans say they will last a long time, if they are
bent and rebent they tend to break across the 4 hole end.
I've attached the RANS AD to this email as they use the same part (not
sure who actually makes them) so you guys can look at it. Just for
information, me and the local guys pulled the cables off of 3 different
planes and inspected with the 10X scope like the AD said and did find 1
tang that was almost completely cracked. These were RANS planes but
like I said they are the same part (by all appearances) and the Kolb
with 1 set of wires instead of 2 would be less tolerant of a failure.
Pulling the bolt and a clean and examine with a magnifying scope sure
doesn't take long to be safe...
Jeremy Casey
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Description: |
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AD-135.PDF |
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77.69 KB |
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007 Posts: 1047 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: tail feathers |
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At 01:20 PM 4/15/2008, william sullivan wrote:
Quote: | Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the roll-over.
I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful re-bending.
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Others have pointed out the danger of re-bending... and besides, any bend
out of shape would probably make them tighter, not looser. If there was
that much stress the cables themselves may be stretched, and/or the
thimbles elongated... you might want to consider replacing the cables _and_
tangs, it's fairly simple and inexpensive to do.
-Dana
--
Friends help you move. *Real* friends help you move bodies.
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DAquaNut(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: tail feathers |
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In a message dated 4/15/2008 12:23:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:
Quote: | Found it. The stainless steel brackets got slightly bent in the roll-over. I am tone deaf, but they are tight now- a little careful re-bending.
Thanks.
do not archive
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Bill,
I dont mean to be an alarmist but I would not be willing to fly with a stainless tail wire bracket that was bent 45* one way and then 45* the other. I dont know how much yours have been bent, but stainless steel work hardens quite rapidly when it is bent and reverse bent. If you make up a new set of tail wires you will be able to install the adjustable stainless tangs and get the tension just where you want it. The choice is obviously Yours. Just something you might want to consider.
Good luck with your project!
Ed Diebel ( FF # 62)
It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms and advice on AOL Money & Finance.
[quote][b]
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1246
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: Re: tail feathers |
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I would not fly with a Rebent tang. I had seen and was going to post the same AD that jeremy was talking about on the RANS airplanes, but he beat me to it. The AD on the rans planes are for the same tangs our Kolbs use.
A Rans has two tail wires, you would probably live if one broke, but Rans has still seen fit to send out an AD for this. A Kolb has one set of wires on the tail, if one breaks you will die. I think all Kolbs should do the inspection for cracks in the tangs as outlined in the AD from Rans.
Flying with rebent tangs is just asking to die, you might as well put a gun to your head and pull the trigger. Its that serious.
Mike
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_________________ "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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Ralph B
Joined: 14 Apr 2007 Posts: 367 Location: Mound Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: tail feathers |
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williamtsullivan(at)att.n Quote: | How tight are the support cables for the horizontal stabilizer supposed to be? Mine seem a bit slack. The plan got flipped in a storm, so I may not be looking at the right parts- I don't have another Kolb around to compare with.
Bill Sullivan
FS/KX/447
Windsor Locks, Ct.
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I know that if the tail wires aren't tight enough, the tang will wear through the thimble prematurely. Once they reach the cable, you know what might happen. In the early days I used the wingnut to tighten the wires and they were too loose. I replaced the wires and now use a locknut and socket wrench to tighten (I set up every time). I wouldn't fly a plane that had the tangs bent once then bent in another direction or re-bent.
Ralph
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_________________ Ralph B
Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours |
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JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1246
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Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: tail feathers |
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Just to make the AD very clear, they are saying to check the tangs for CRACKS, not wear. I would check the bend itself for cracks while looking at the tang, but the AD is saying to check around the bolt holes for cracks where there is less material and the tang is being loaded in bend. If you tighten the tail wires to tight, it can cause these cracks form as per this AD. You need to get the wire tension tight, but not to tight either... To tight can be even more dangerous than not tight enough due to cracks and sudden failure.
Mike
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_________________ "NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!
Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S |
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Thom Riddle
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1597 Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)
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Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: tail feathers |
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The tail wires have a single function and purpose. They hold the vertical and horizontal stabilizers in constant relative position, so that don't flap like bird wings. The wires should be tight enough to perform this function without any wobble and no tighter, for reasons already expressed by others.
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_________________ Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)
Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
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