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scottarden(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Hey, Lightning flashes!



Now that you've had the hours on the new demonstrator, do tell....  What are the performance numbers shaping up to be?  How much better are the speeds?  Any weight changes?  Distances?  Fuel flow?  Yada, yada, yada!!  Looking forward to hearing the updates!!

--

Have a blessed day!

Scott C. Arden

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Scott and all,

     Nick can probably give you some ball park numbers  since he flew it to and from SNF, but since he kind of stayed with the "gaggle"  (a loose formation - like Navy pilots fly) of Jabiru aircraft his numbers will  probably not be optimum.  I plan to be in Tennessee in early May  (judging at a NIFA contest) and will drop by SYI to do a full flight evaluation  like I have previously done on both the prototype and the original  demonstrator.  Look for it in either the May or June newsletter - it all  depends on how much time I have between now and then to get the next issue  out.

     In the mean time, I can tell you from having flown  two sorties in it for a total of about 2.8 hours, it is the best one yet.   Pretty much flies hands off and goes really well.  It did not have the gear  leg fairings or wheel pants on when I flew it last, so now it will be even  better.  

 Blue skies,

 Buz



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Group,



Yes we are back and we have got a good idea of performance but did not get a

chance to let it stretch the old legs on the trip due to weather mostly.

The trip down, the jabiru folks and the lightning flew in a group. Well

mostly a group I was normally out in front a ways checking weather on the

route. Most of the trip was at 8k-12k and I had it powered back for economy

cruise and to stay somewhat with the group, Average TAS was 132nkts (this is

not GS but TAS) (at) 4.2 gph and a power setting of 2700-2780rpms. That was the

trip down. The trip back was very rough and had to have the power back and

airspeed under Va so no good data there, the last 45 minutes although was

smooth enough to fly at about 2850rpm..that magic number for LSA and N324AL

will run (at) 3500ft 145 mph IAS and 138ktns TAS so a bit fast for LSA in this

configuration but we did not build it for that.....Before departure on a few

test flights at 4k I was seeing with the autopilot lock on and the plane

flying it self 155mph IAS and 170mph TAS this at between 2950-3000 rpm...

At first this is not any better than the old demo....but we have the same

prop 62 FK 58...and at the same REVs it should go the same speed..and it

does....the difference is a whole lot a throttle left to go! The old demo

323AL would turn that prop to 3100revs... (at) 5k WOT....the new demo will turn

the same prop (at) 5k WOT to well above 3300 revs...there is the difference,

the ability to run maybe 2" or better more pitch in the prop. Which in turn

should give better speed. But heres the real dilemma, the prop will still

get 170TAS which is good, but it also turns up more REVs at WOT for takeoff,

the ground roll is shorter the climb rate is quicker, so I think this might

be still the best choice...but if you don't care about runways lengths and

you want a bit more speed I think a 62fk60 may be the answer.

Other wise it is performing as expected, the new trim system is as it should

be and works great....no more bungees. This aircraft came in (at) 823lbs empty,

speed kit , interior, dual EFIS, auto pilot, garmin Radio and TXP.....

The 30 gallons of fuel is proving to be a nice addition. If you figure

132knts TAS (at) 4.2 GPH economy cruise That's 6.5 hours with reserve, 858 nm

no wind, and about 31.4 mpg....that make owning a Honda sound boring don't

it!...Oh and did I mention we won best Composite homebuilt at Sun N Fun.....



Nick 



--

info(at)jabiru.cl
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Congratulation Nick and Arion team for the information about the new Demo.



Christian Tannen

Jabiru Chile



-----Mensaje original-----

De: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] En nombre de flylightning

Enviado el: Thursday, April 17, 2008 1:02 PM

Para: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

Asunto: RE: Details, Details, Details






Group,



Yes we are back and we have got a good idea of performance but did not get a

chance to let it stretch the old legs on the trip due to weather mostly.

The trip down, the jabiru folks and the lightning flew in a group. Well

mostly a group I was normally out in front a ways checking weather on the

route. Most of the trip was at 8k-12k and I had it powered back for economy

cruise and to stay somewhat with the group, Average TAS was 132nkts (this is

not GS but TAS) (at) 4.2 gph and a power setting of 2700-2780rpms. That was the

trip down. The trip back was very rough and had to have the power back and

airspeed under Va so no good data there, the last 45 minutes although was

smooth enough to fly at about 2850rpm..that magic number for LSA and N324AL

will run (at) 3500ft 145 mph IAS and 138ktns TAS so a bit fast for LSA in this

configuration but we did not build it for that.....Before departure on a few

test flights at 4k I was seeing with the autopilot lock on and the plane

flying it self 155mph IAS and 170mph TAS this at between 2950-3000 rpm...

At first this is not any better than the old demo....but we have the same

prop 62 FK 58...and at the same REVs it should go the same speed..and it

does....the difference is a whole lot a throttle left to go! The old demo

323AL would turn that prop to 3100revs... (at) 5k WOT....the new demo will turn

the same prop (at) 5k WOT to well above 3300 revs...there is the difference,

the ability to run maybe 2" or better more pitch in the prop. Which in turn

should give better speed. But heres the real dilemma, the prop will still

get 170TAS which is good, but it also turns up more REVs at WOT for takeoff,

the ground roll is shorter the climb rate is quicker, so I think this might

be still the best choice...but if you don't care about runways lengths and

you want a bit more speed I think a 62fk60 may be the answer.

Other wise it is performing as expected, the new trim system is as it should

be and works great....no more bungees. This aircraft came in (at) 823lbs empty,

speed kit , interior, dual EFIS, auto pilot, garmin Radio and TXP.....

The 30 gallons of fuel is proving to be a nice addition. If you figure

132knts TAS (at) 4.2 GPH economy cruise That's 6.5 hours with reserve, 858 nm

no wind, and about 31.4 mpg....that make owning a Honda sound boring don't

it!...Oh and did I mention we won best Composite homebuilt at Sun N Fun.....



Nick 



--

Wayne Lenox

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Now Buz 

As an old Navy guy I take exception to your comment about the NAVY PILOTS.  "(a loose formation - like Navy pilots fly)".  In my thoughts the Blue Angles are the finest flying group.  I would not call there shows a loose formation. 

Just having fun with you!!! 

Wayne



-- N1BZRich(at)aol.com wrote:

 Scott and all,

     Nick can probably give you some ball park numbers since he flew it to and from SNF, but since he kind of stayed with the "gaggle" (a loose formation - like Navy pilots fly) of Jabiru aircraft his numbers will probably not be optimum.  I plan to be in Tennessee in early May (judging at a NIFA contest) and will drop by SYI to do a full flight evaluation like I have previously done on both the prototype and the original demonstrator.  Look for it in either the May or June newsletter - it all depends on how much time I have between now and then to get the next issue out.

     In the mean time, I can tell you from having flown two sorties in it for a total of about 2.8 hours, it is the best one yet.  Pretty much flies hands off and goes really well.  It did not have the gear leg fairings or wheel pants on when I flew it last, so now it will be even better.  

 Blue skies,

 Buz



   Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



====================================

ist">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================

www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	
 



_____________________________________________________________

Click to become a master chef, own a restaurant and make millions.

   [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:10 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

In a message dated 4/17/2008 4:17:27 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  waynelenox(at)juno.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Just having fun with you!!! 	


 

 Hi Wayne,

     That's exactly the purpose of many of my Navy  comments - just to keep the ex Navy guys (friends) on the defensive.  And I  have to agree with your comment about the "Blues", especially when they do that  roll into the 4 ship echelon - you have to know that takes some real skill for  #4.  The "Birds" only do that in normal fingertip - not a total piece of  cake, but certainly #4 in that is much easier.

 Blue Skies,

 Buz



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:17 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it is worth noting to the Light  Sport folks...............

  

 the rule is 120 knots True Airspeed AT SEA  LEVEL    

  

 So the speed could very well be greater at 5-7000 feet,  perhaps Nick was at a higher density altitude than he  thought.     The static system could also be off.[img]http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02[/img]

  

 It is quite possible that there is a small tach error that might need  correction.   Also possible that the speeds will slow down at gross  weight.  (1320#)

  

 So if you are building a Light Sport qualified, be sure to use your  calibrated pencil and note the proper information in your pilots handbook,  perhaps in the logbook  as well. 

  

 Also lobby for the new wing tips.  They look great!!!

  

 And yes, Nick, you did mention stealing the award at Sun n Fun.    If you are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand Champion at Osh  Kosh??????

  

 Doug

  

 In a message dated 4/17/2008 1:06:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  info(at)flylightning.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Group,



Yes we are back and we have got a good idea of    performance but did not get a

chance to let it stretch the old legs on the    trip due to weather mostly.

The trip down, the jabiru folks and the    lightning flew in a group. Well

mostly a group I was normally out in front    a ways checking weather on the

route. Most of the trip was at 8k-12k and I    had it powered back for economy

cruise and to stay somewhat with the group,    Average TAS was 132nkts (this is

not GS but TAS) (at) 4.2 gph and a power    setting of 2700-2780rpms. That was the

trip down. The trip back was very    rough and had to have the power back and

airspeed under Va so no good data    there, the last 45 minutes although was

smooth enough to fly at about    2850rpm..that magic number for LSA and N324AL

will run (at) 3500ft 145 mph IAS    and 138ktns TAS so a bit fast for LSA in this

configuration but we did not    build it for that.....Before departure on a few

test flights at 4k I was    seeing with the autopilot lock on and the plane

flying it self 155mph IAS    and 170mph TAS this at between 2950-3000 rpm...

At first this is not any    better than the old demo....but we have the same

prop 62 FK 58...and at the    same REVs it should go the same speed..and it

does....the difference is a    whole lot a throttle left to go! The old demo

323AL would turn that prop to    3100revs... (at) 5k WOT....the new demo will turn

the same prop (at) 5k WOT to    well above 3300 revs...there is the difference,

the ability to run maybe 2"    or better more pitch in the prop. Which in turn

should give better speed.    But heres the real dilemma, the prop will still

get 170TAS which is good,    but it also turns up more REVs at WOT for takeoff,

the ground roll is    shorter the climb rate is quicker, so I think this might

be still the best    choice...but if you don't care about runways lengths and

you want a bit    more speed I think a 62fk60 may be the answer.

Other wise it is performing    as expected, the new trim system is as it should

be and works great....no    more bungees. This aircraft came in (at) 823lbs empty,

speed kit , interior,    dual EFIS, auto pilot, garmin Radio and TXP.....

The 30 gallons of fuel is    proving to be a nice addition. If you figure

132knts TAS (at) 4.2 GPH economy    cruise That's 6.5 hours with reserve, 858 nm

no wind, and about 31.4    mpg....that make owning a Honda sound boring don't

it!...Oh and did I    mention we won best Composite homebuilt at Sun N  Fun.....



	


 

  



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

In a message dated 4/17/2008 6:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  Kayberg(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  If you    are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand Champion at Osh    Kosh?????? 	


 

 Do I detect a "small amount" of envy?  Just kidding, but as we all  know, competition improves the breed.  The airplanes I have seen come out  of Green Landings are every bit as show quality as those built in  Tennessee.  Overall I think all the Lightning dealers and builders  should start having their airplanes judged - at every fly in you go to that has  judging.  But a little heads up, the judging standards are a little higher  at Oshkosh and the number being judged is higher as well.  But we need the  judges to start seeing more and more composite airplanes entered for  judging.

 Blue Skies,

 Buz



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

Kayberg(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:09:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        In a message dated 4/17/2008 6:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,    Kayberg(at)aol.com writes:

    	  Quote: 	
		  If you      are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand Champion at Osh      Kosh?????? 	


   

   Do I detect a "small amount" of envy?  Just kidding, but as we all    know, competition improves the breed.  The airplanes I have seen come out    of Green Landings are every bit as show quality as those built in    Tennessee.  Overall I think all the Lightning dealers and builders    should start having their airplanes judged - at every fly in you go to that    has judging.  But a little heads up, the judging standards are a little    higher at Oshkosh and the number being judged is higher as well.  But we    need the judges to start seeing more and more composite airplanes entered for    judging.

   Blue Skies,

   Buz

	


 

 Yeah, some envy.  But that is life.  You make a good point about  entering Lightnings in fly-in judging.  Good for the breed.

  

 Our man Buddy has high standards and his own thoughts of how it should be  done....and he has built before.   His  was possibly  our combined best effort to date. Probably should have won  something...but I think there was some confusion by having it in the  Ultralight/light sport area.  We are happy to have a good painter, good  interior man and keep making refinements.  The Shelbyville gang took some  detailed pictures of how we did some under-cowling details, so they may make  some improvements.   We noted their wing and stabilizer attach changes  and will try some of that with improvements of our own.

  

 I think improving the wing intersection made a difference in the cruise  speed that Nick is seeing.  But there is another way to do it that is even  better.  Actually, two ways .... maybe....

  

 So if the cruise will pick up 5 mph with better wing root fairing and the  retractable wheel pants adds 5 more, who knows?

  

 (Some of you may recall that Jim Bede designed some wheel pants that  retracted for ground use and extended to cover the wheels in flight.  In  his world they made a 15 mph difference. LoPresti has a set that they are  selling, but they are both heavy and pricey.   Maybe the skunk works  can improve on them.  The mechanism is simple and easy to copy.)

  

 doug



Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

punga-iwi(at)netspace.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

You will find the Bede wheel pants here.

http://www.bedecorp.com/images/pricelists/bd4_speed_pants.pdf

Bill

(Australia)



Kayberg(at)aol.com wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   In a message dated 4/17/2008 7:09:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 

 N1BZRich(at)aol.com writes:



     In a message dated 4/17/2008 6:18:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

     Kayberg(at)aol.com writes:



         If you are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand

         Champion at Osh Kosh??????



     Do I detect a "small amount" of envy?  Just kidding, but as we all

     know, competition improves the breed.  The airplanes I have seen

     come out of Green Landings are every bit as show quality as those

     built in Tennessee.  Overall I think all the Lightning dealers and

     builders should start having their airplanes judged - at every fly

     in you go to that has judging.  But a little heads up, the judging

     standards are a little higher at Oshkosh and the number being

     judged is higher as well.  But we need the judges to start seeing

     more and more composite airplanes entered for judging.

     Blue Skies,

     Buz



 Yeah, some envy.  But that is life.  You make a good point about 

 entering Lightnings in fly-in judging.  Good for the breed.

  

 Our man Buddy has high standards and his own thoughts of how it should 

 be done....and he has built before.   His  was possibly our combined 

 best effort to date. Probably should have won something...but I think 

 there was some confusion by having it in the Ultralight/light sport 

 area.  We are happy to have a good painter, good interior man and keep 

 making refinements.  The Shelbyville gang took some detailed pictures 

 of how we did some under-cowling details, so they may make some 

 improvements.   We noted their wing and stabilizer attach changes and 

 will try some of that with improvements of our own.

  

 I think improving the wing intersection made a difference in the 

 cruise speed that Nick is seeing.  But there is another way to do it 

 that is even better.  Actually, two ways .... maybe....

  

 So if the cruise will pick up 5 mph with better wing root fairing and 

 the retractable wheel pants adds 5 more, who knows?

  

 (Some of you may recall that Jim Bede designed some wheel pants that 

 retracted for ground use and extended to cover the wheels in flight.  

 In his world they made a 15 mph difference. LoPresti has a set that 

 they are selling, but they are both heavy and pricey.   Maybe the 

 skunk works can improve on them.  The mechanism is simple and easy to 

 copy.)

  

 doug



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings 

 at AOL Autos <http://autos.aol.com/used?NCID=aolcmp00300000002851>.

 *

 *

sttwig(at)wabroadband.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 "The Shelbyville gang took some  detailed pictures of how we did some
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   under-cowling details,

 so they may make  some improvements.   We noted their wing and stabilizer

 attach changes  and will try some of that with improvements of our own.



 I think improving the wing intersection made a difference in the cruise

 speed that Nick is seeing.  But there is another way to do it that is even

 better.  Actually, two ways .... maybe...."


	


I know how the new demo's wing and stabilizer attachments were done. 

Would you be willing to share what your improvements might be and how

about the other methods that you alluded to?



Also, I'm curious about the "under the cowl" improvements you mentioned.



Thanks,



Steve

Kit #48 in Washington State

Colin K.

Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 157
Location: Oklahoma

Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Me too! Except I don't really know how the new demo's wing and stabilizer

attachments were done.



Colin K.

OK

Lightning # 52 under construction.

http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken

--

_________________
Colin K.
OK

info(at)flylightning.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: Details, Details, Details

Well we will certainly have it judged at EAA and will be happy for what ever we get and if not the free hat and mug are great parting gifts!!!  

   

Nick  

         

  

From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kayberg(at)aol.com

 Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2008 5:15 PM

 To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Lightning-List: Details, Details, Details  

  

       

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it is worth noting to the Light Sport folks...............  

    

   

    

the rule is 120 knots True Airspeed AT SEA LEVEL      

    

   

    

So the speed could very well be greater at 5-7000 feet, perhaps Nick was at a higher density altitude than he thought.     The static system could also be off.[img]http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/02[/img]  

    

   

    

It is quite possible that there is a small tach error that might need correction.   Also possible that the speeds will slow down at gross weight.  (1320#)  

    

   

    

So if you are building a Light Sport qualified, be sure to use your calibrated pencil and note the proper information in your pilots handbook, perhaps in the logbook  as well.   

    

   

    

Also lobby for the new wing tips.  They look great!!!  

    

   

    

And yes, Nick, you did mention stealing the award at Sun n Fun.   If you are such a hot builder, we should be looking for Grand Champion at Osh Kosh??????  

    

   

    

Doug  

    

   

    

In a message dated 4/17/2008 1:06:02 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, info(at)flylightning.net writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

Group,

 

 Yes we are back and we have got a good idea of performance but did not get a

 chance to let it stretch the old legs on the trip due to weather mostly.

 The trip down, the jabiru folks and the lightning flew in a group. Well

 mostly a group I was normally out in front a ways checking weather on the

 route. Most of the trip was at 8k-12k and I had it powered back for economy

 cruise and to stay somewhat with the group, Average TAS was 132nkts (this is

 not GS but TAS) (at) 4.2 gph and a power setting of 2700-2780rpms. That was the

 trip down. The trip back was very rough and had to have the power back and

 airspeed under Va so no good data there, the last 45 minutes although was

 smooth enough to fly at about 2850rpm..that magic number for LSA and N324AL

 will run (at) 3500ft 145 mph IAS and 138ktns TAS so a bit fast for LSA in this

 configuration but we did not build it for that.....Before departure on a few

 test flights at 4k I was seeing with the autopilot lock on and the plane

 flying it self 155mph IAS and 170mph TAS this at between 2950-3000 rpm...

 At first this is not any better than the old demo....but we have the same

 prop 62 FK 58...and at the same REVs it should go the same speed..and it

 does....the difference is a whole lot a throttle left to go! The old demo

 323AL would turn that prop to 3100revs... (at) 5k WOT....the new demo will turn

 the same prop (at) 5k WOT to well above 3300 revs...there is the difference,

 the ability to run maybe 2" or better more pitch in the prop. Which in turn

 should give better speed. But heres the real dilemma, the prop will still

 get 170TAS which is good, but it also turns up more REVs at WOT for takeoff,

 the ground roll is shorter the climb rate is quicker, so I think this might

 be still the best choice...but if you don't care about runways lengths and

 you want a bit more speed I think a 62fk60 may be the answer.

 Other wise it is performing as expected, the new trim system is as it should

 be and works great....no more bungees. This aircraft came in (at) 823lbs empty,

 speed kit , interior, dual EFIS, auto pilot, garmin Radio and TXP.....

 The 30 gallons of fuel is proving to be a nice addition. If you figure

 132knts TAS (at) 4.2 GPH economy cruise That's 6.5 hours with reserve, 858 nm

 no wind, and about 31.4 mpg....that make owning a Honda sound boring don't

 it!...Oh and did I mention we won best Composite homebuilt at Sun N Fun.....  	
  

    

   

  



 

         

  

Need a new ride? Check out the largest site for U.S. used car listings at AOL Autos.  

   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List 	
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