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Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

Hi all,



I have had a number of "off forum" emails wondering why after nearly

800 hours of monowheel time am I changing to a conventional tail

dragger.  Well the reason isn't anything sinister, where I have simply

given up on trying to land the darn thing !!



There are a few things that have prompted my down this route.  I had

been doing a bit of research on the topic and it was becoming apparent

that there might not be a drag penalty with conventional gear,

actually after exchanging a few emails with Duncan I am beginning to

think that conventional gear might even have less drag.



Another advantage is that on the ground cooling is much improved.  I

find I have a bit of a  problem with oil temps bumping up near 250 f

in the summer time.



A few other factors are playing into it, my daughter is wanting to fly

the aircraft and I just can't get comfortable with the idea of her

having to come up to speed with landing it on the pavement.  I think I

was probably 100 hours in before I started to feel comfortable.

Getting hull insurance on it with her as PIC would be near impossible.



Why not a Tri gear ?  I am not prepared to pay the 40 pound weight penalty



What finally ticked me off was last September the port out rigger

jammed up,  I realized it as the aircraft was rolling out so I flicked

the wing up, got it to lock but the violent action caused me to swing

the aircraft around to 90 degrees on the runway and I got a propeller

strike.  It was minor, just grazing two blades by a few mm, but it

still put me out of action for 6 weeks and $1500.00 in the hole



I was so irritated by this that I promptly ordered a tail dragger

conversion.  The other thing that interests me is that I suspect that

I can make it go faster.  Without the wheel in place I can close up

the air outlet, and while I am about it re work the inlet, and re

route the exhaust. I am also speculating that the drag from the "half

wheel" exposed plus the opening is quite significant, perhaps more

than some nicely faired gear legs and wheel pants.  Performance

numbers from Duncan suggest that this might be the case.



Lastly the electric flap drive will let get a little more flap travel

so I might be able to add a few degrees of negative reflex in the

flaps.



So, I guess I am going to be busy over the winter.



Cheers,  Paul

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:05 am Post subject: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

Thanks, I was silently wondering too.



Greg Fuchs



Do not archive



--

jrgowing(at)bigpond.net.a
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

Thank you for your thoughts Paul



JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz



Do not archive



---

Venu Rao

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Texas

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

Thanks Paul - a "lurker" on this forum who was also wondering...

still haven't transitioned to the mono and have my concerns

as a very low time pilot.



Cheers,

Venu Rao

Austin, Texas

A058 - Flying

Built by Jim Nelson

Ian Mansfeld

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 4
Location: Salisbury, England

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

I had mine converted about 3 years ago - best move ever (other than the VP prop of course...). It just looks so nice. 



I had tailwheel experience and a good check out, but I was never happy balancing on that monowheel. As my instructor said, its not a matter of IF you will groundloop it, just WHEN. It might be 40 hours or 400... The defining moment came when it was parked out overnight and I had a phone call from the airfield to come back as 'something had happened' - it turned out that a wing leg had collapsed while parked! Who wants an aircraft that can't even stay upright while standing still! 



With a pair of Duncans lightweight leg fairings, there was no loss of performance. By fitting a set of wheel pants,  I probably only gained 3-4 knots but it looks way better. (I used the trigear mains, which looked huge out of the box but when fitted look in proportion. I have had many complementary comments about how right it looks as a taildragger). 



And of course ground handling is as easy as any other taildragger. I have handled 15knot crosswinds with no issues (on grass) and the limit is me rather than the aircraft. I self-limit to 12knots crosswind if out of practice for a while. 



Ian.

josok-e(at)ukolo.fi
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

Sorry, can't resist, have to take this one on. 

There seems to be some guarantee that conventional and tri-gear landings will always be soft and happy. But i can't find any statistics that point in that direction. As a matter of fact, the numbers add up quite differently. And also so far, i have seen more bent trigear legs then tail wheel damage. 



My instructors remark about ground looping was made while during circuits in a super cup, and it went like: "There are tail wheel pilots that have ground looped and there are tail wheel pilots that will do it"  He had never seen a mono. Now, after some 300 landings in my mono, i am pretty sure that someday i will make the have done class.  And i will stay in that "done that be there" class, and blame my own lack lack of proficiency, and not the aircraft. Let alone i change it to something else. 

So far the worst landing were when i got confident in nice weather, and the most feared +15 knots crosswind and gusting went off like a dream. 

Makes sense, at least to me. 

But let there be more airplanes then opinions, and everybody will be happy. 



Regards,



Jos Okhuijsen

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:16 am Post subject: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

Conventional gear aircraft are not much less demanding than monowheel.

The main lesson that had to be learnt with monowheel was to keep the

tail on the ground to 40kts on take-off. Also the vulnerable period on

take-off (40 - 50kts)is much reduced with the use of higher power

engines and CS props. I know of one conventional gear Europa has

departed the side of a tarmac runway and sheared off the bottom of its

gear leg so they are not immune to loss of control. The nosewheel on

trigears can receive a lot of loading on grass and nosewheel collapse

has happened on several occasions. Trigears are great if you are only

going to use tarmac runways and are prepared to sacrifice payload, speed

and fuel consumption. With monowheel aircraft landings are more

difficult on tarmac due to the increased directional instability. This

also applies to conventional gear to a slightly lesser extent. The

monowheel has a weight advantage as the reinforced area of the fuselage

for the landing gear coincides with that of the engine. Due to the need

to reinforce the fuselage in a different area both the trigear (and to a

lesser extent the conventional gear) suffer weight penalties.



In my opinion too much blame is placed on the aircraft. Without doubt

greater skill is required to handle the monowheel but most of the

accidents/incidents are down to the pilot which is why the number of

events have reduced over the years as technique and training have been

developed. I know many pilots with many hours of monowheel experience

who haven't groundlooped their aircraft. Many never will, but it would

be tempting fate to claim it. The secret seems to be to take proper

specific type training, learn the specific techniques and operate within

your own limitations which will often be more limiting than that of the

aircraft. After 250hrs I still try to avoid crosswinds of over 10kts

even though I have operated at higher crosswinds on a few occasions.

Crosswind handling is always going to be a bigger challenge for

monowheel and conventional gear aircraft over trigear. Gradually

increasing your personal limit and making an allowance for gusty

conditions is a wise precaution.



In monowheel form the Europa still stands out as a unique aircraft in

terms of grass strip operation combined with fuel efficient cruising.

Once you choose other types of gear there are several similarly

competetive types around such as the Sportcruiser. With the recent hike

in fuel prices even the RV series (another good strip/touring machine)

is starting to feel the pinch in terms of operating costs.



Nigel Charles

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Conventional gear aircraft are not much less demanding than monowheel.

 

 In my opinion too much blame is placed on the aircraft. 


	


  I know many pilots with many hours of monowheel experience

 	  Quote: 	
		   who haven't groundlooped their aircraft. Many never will, 

 

 In monowheel form the Europa still stands out as a unique aircraft in

 terms of grass strip operation combined with fuel efficient cruising.

 

 Nigel Charles


	


Nigel

I couldn't agree more. The monowheel was chosen to enable operation from 

muddy fields, and it can. There was an occasion when the grass was 

longish and the tri gear would not take off 2 up. Jon Tye's monowheel 

was used to ferry the passenger to a nearby hard strip. (Ivan was flying 

the tri)

Walter Binder's early Classic mono was outstanding, he retracted the 

outriggers electrically into the wing, modified the cowlings and the 

windscreen. He claimed he cruised at 140kts with an 80hp 912. He also 

towed gliders with it.

Walter is a unique character, wish I knew him but my German is not good 

enough.

Graham

Venu Rao

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Texas

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

Nigel and Graham,



Thanks for the terrific feedback. I concur that it's all about pilot experience and personal comfort-levels. There are many of us new to the mono's, and several who are in the latter stages of completion, and would dearly like to get some "authorized" training and are willing to pay for it too. 



The mono config is unique and elegant, but after reading several threads in the archives about "sensitive handling" and failing to find anyone in the States (Texas!) who can provide some transition training it has me second guessing if I should indeed convert Jim Nelson's beautifully crafted A058 to a conventional gear. 



There seems to be a lot of ambivalence in the community on this subject, and it could in large part be mitigated if we had some "formal" training. No doubt hull insurance will go down with fewer accidents to sully the reputation of one of the most beautiful a/c in aviation!



BTW - how can I get more info on Walter's elec. retract outriggers and can they be incorporated as a post build mod?



Thanks, and looking forward to joining you in the skies soon - mono or conventional....



Venu



 	  grahamsingleton(at)btinte wrote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		   

 Conventional gear aircraft are not much less demanding than monowheel.

 

 In my opinion too much blame is placed on the aircraft. 



	


  I know many pilots with many hours of monowheel experience

 	  Quote: 	
		   who haven't groundlooped their aircraft. Many never will, 

 

 In monowheel form the Europa still stands out as a unique aircraft in

 terms of grass strip operation combined with fuel efficient cruising.

 

 Nigel Charles



	


Nigel

I couldn't agree more. The monowheel was chosen to enable operation from 

muddy fields, and it can. There was an occasion when the grass was 

longish and the tri gear would not take off 2 up. Jon Tye's monowheel 

was used to ferry the passenger to a nearby hard strip. (Ivan was flying 

the tri)

Walter Binder's early Classic mono was outstanding, he retracted the 

outriggers electrically into the wing, modified the cowlings and the 

windscreen. He claimed he cruised at 140kts with an 80hp 912. He also 

towed gliders with it.

Walter is a unique character, wish I knew him but my German is not good 

enough.

Graham

_________________
Venu Rao
Austin, TX
Europa Mono
Builder: Jim Nelson
TTAE 119.1 hrs

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:28 pm Post subject: Conventional Tail Wheel Conversion

I only have two piks of the outrigger; this was a German guy near 

Hamburg whose name I don't have. It was at least 8 years ago. Jens 

Gralfs  <Jens.Gralfs(at)airbus.dasa.de> might know. Failing him Harald 

linke <0406055601-0001(at)T-Online.de>

Graham



Venu Rao wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Nigel and Graham,


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 BTW - how can I get more info on Walter's elec. retract outriggers and can they be incorporated as a post build mod?

 

 Thanks, and looking forward to joining you in the skies soon - mono or conventional....

 

 Venu

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