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me(at)chadcarlson.com
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 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Spins in a -10? |
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Hi All,
I read and watch this list with interest and envy. I am not a builder (yet), but I do have a plan in motion and intend to building an RV-10 in the summer or fall of 2009. I thank you all for the informative thoughts and ideas I have had the pleasure of observing!!! My "to-do," "wish," and "check this/that/the other thing" lists are getting quite lengthy. 
In all of my reading and research, I have not been able to determine if:
a.) the RV-10 is safely spinnable
b.) anyone has compiled details of its spin characteristics (providing the answer to a. is yes)
I know the -10, along with the -9(A) are not intended or designed for aerobatics, but this does not address the spin question to my satisfaction. For example, Cessna 1[578]2 aircraft are not built for aerobatics (15[02] Aerobat being the exception), but they are certified to spin.
The ability / inability to spin has absolutely no bearing on my decision to build a -10; in fact, I am asking out of little more than morbid curiosity.
Thank you in advance for any additional info and/or thoughts on the subject.
Chad E. Carlson
Eastern Daylight Time ( UTC -4 )
"Pilots may be temporarily uncertain of their position, but they are never lost."
Do Not Archive
[quote] ---
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ScooterF15
Joined: 19 Jun 2006
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: Spins in a -10? |
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I'm a bit reluctant to post this, but I think it may be a useful data point for the group.
During my fly-off phase I tested the spin characteristics of my RV-10. I will mention that I was wearing a chute, and I've had spin training in both the T-3A Firefly and T-37. Also, a little CYA, I am not recommending this as something to go out and try.
I tested it at a gross weight of 2195# with CG at 110.33" aft of datum. I tested it in both left and right spins entered from a power-off stall. With pro-spin controls (you really need to be ham-fisting it to get it to enter), the aircraft was quick to enter a spin. Once the controls are neutralized, the spin immediately stopped, requiring a recovery from the subsequent nose low attitude. While the stall characteristics of the RV-10 are quite docile in my opinion, the spin happens fairly quickly. The biggest issue I found was the short time from stall to extreme nose low attitudes in the initial development of the spin; the RV-10 is quick to gain speed in this attitude and the possibility of an overspeed and/or an over-G is large during the recovery. I believe a spin in IFR would be quickly disorienting. My overall assessment is that while you can make the aircraft spin, you either have to want to do it or are really screwing things up to make it happen. If it does happen, it appears that neutralizing the controls stops it.
I'll add another disclaimer that this assessment was in MY airplane, at ONE particular weight and ONE particular CG location with ONE particular type of entry. It was not at all a comprehensive spin test, but, it gives me some further understanding of the flight characteristics of my plane.
-Jim
#40134
In a message dated 4/27/2008 12:21:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, me(at)chadcarlson.com writes:
[quote] Hi All,
I read and watch this list with interest and envy. I am not a builder (yet), but I do have a plan in motion and intend to building an RV-10 in the summer or fall of 2009. I thank you all for the informative thoughts and ideas I have had the pleasure of observing!!! My "to-do," "wish," and "check this/that/the other thing" lists are getting quite lengthy.
In all of my reading and research, I have not been able to determine if:
a.) the RV-10 is safely spinnable
b.) anyone has compiled details of its spin characteristics (providing the answer to a. is yes)
I know the -10, along with the -9(A) are not intended or designed for aerobatics, but this does not address the spin question to my satisfaction. For example, Cessna 1[578]2 aircraft are not built for aerobatics (15[02] Aerobat being the exception), but they are certified to spin.
The ability / inability to spin has absolutely no bearing on my decision to build a -10; in fact, I am asking out of little more than morbid curiosity.
Thank you in advance for any additional info and/or thoughts on the subject.
Chad E. Carlson
Eastern Daylight Time ( UTC -4 )
"Pilots may be temporarily uncertain of their position, but they are never lost."
Do Not Archive
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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coop85(at)cableone.net
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Spins in a -10? |
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Jim,
Excellent approach to your testing and write-up, I for one am very glad you posted it. I haven’t attempted spins in the -10 (and probably won’t, especially with this solid report) but have spun a LOT of other airplanes (including the T-37 but that was a LONG time ago). From stall testing I certainly had the impression the -10 was not going to enter a spin without some serious effort or buffoonery and it’s good to see a confirmation of that.
Thanks,
Marcus
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JSMcGrew(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 7:20 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Spins in a -10?
I'm a bit reluctant to post this, but I think it may be a useful data point for the group.
During my fly-off phase I tested the spin characteristics of my RV-10. I will mention that I was wearing a chute, and I've had spin training in both the T-3A Firefly and T-37. Also, a little CYA, I am not recommending this as something to go out and try.
I tested it at a gross weight of 2195# with CG at 110.33" aft of datum. I tested it in both left and right spins entered from a power-off stall. With pro-spin controls (you really need to be ham-fisting it to get it to enter), the aircraft was quick to enter a spin. Once the controls are neutralized, the spin immediately stopped, requiring a recovery from the subsequent nose low attitude. While the stall characteristics of the RV-10 are quite docile in my opinion, the spin happens fairly quickly. The biggest issue I found was the short time from stall to extreme nose low attitudes in the initial development of the spin; the RV-10 is quick to gain speed in this attitude and the possibility of an overspeed and/or an over-G is large during the recovery. I believe a spin in IFR would be quickly disorienting. My overall assessment is that while you can make the aircraft spin, you either have to want to do it or are really screwing things up to make it happen. If it does happen, it appears that neutralizing the controls stops it.
I'll add another disclaimer that this assessment was in MY airplane, at ONE particular weight and ONE particular CG location with ONE particular type of entry. It was not at all a comprehensive spin test, but, it gives me some further understanding of the flight characteristics of my plane.
-Jim
#40134
In a message dated 4/27/2008 12:21:21 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, me(at)chadcarlson.com writes:
[quote]
Hi All,
I read and watch this list with interest and envy. I am not a builder (yet), but I do have a plan in motion and intend to building an RV-10 in the summer or fall of 2009. I thank you all for the informative thoughts and ideas I have had the pleasure of observing!!! My "to-do," "wish," and "check this/that/the other thing" lists are getting quite lengthy.
In all of my reading and research, I have not been able to determine if:
a.) the RV-10 is safely spinnable
b.) anyone has compiled details of its spin characteristics (providing the answer to a. is yes)
I know the -10, along with the -9(A) are not intended or designed for aerobatics, but this does not address the spin question to my satisfaction. For example, Cessna 1[578]2 aircraft are not built for aerobatics (15[02] Aerobat being the exception), but they are certified to spin.
The ability / inability to spin has absolutely no bearing on my decision to build a -10; in fact, I am asking out of little more than morbid curiosity.
Thank you in advance for any additional info and/or thoughts on the subject.
Chad E. Carlson
Eastern Daylight Time ( UTC -4 )
"Pilots may be temporarily uncertain of their position, but they are never lost."
Do Not Archive
[quote]
---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Spins in a -10? |
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I have heard of one other -10 pilot who did a couple of spins during his Phase 1 and he said they were not surprising (hard to get into and easy to get out of). Note that this is 3rd hand, but it was in a -10 and done by a 30,000+ hour pilot in more different planes that months I've lived.
do not archive
Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com (jesse(at)saintaviation.com)
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
On Apr 27, 2008, at 12:17 PM, Chad E. Carlson wrote:
[quote]Hi All,
I read and watch this list with interest and envy. I am not a builder (yet), but I do have a plan in motion and intend to building an RV-10 in the summer or fall of 2009. I thank you all for the informative thoughts and ideas I have had the pleasure of observing!!! My "to-do," "wish," and "check this/that/the other thing" lists are getting quite lengthy.
In all of my reading and research, I have not been able to determine if:
a.) the RV-10 is safely spinnable
b.) anyone has compiled details of its spin characteristics (providing the answer to a. is yes)
I know the -10, along with the -9(A) are not intended or designed for aerobatics, but this does not address the spin question to my satisfaction. For example, Cessna 1[578]2 aircraft are not built for aerobatics (15[02] Aerobat being the exception), but they are certified to spin.
The ability / inability to spin has absolutely no bearing on my decision to build a -10; in fact, I am asking out of little more than morbid curiosity.
Thank you in advance for any additional info and/or thoughts on the subject.
Chad E. Carlson
Eastern Daylight Time ( UTC -4 )
"Pilots may be temporarily uncertain of their position, but they are never lost."
Do Not Archive
[quote]---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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me(at)chadcarlson.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: Spins in a -10? |
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Jim,
Thank you for reporting your results. The fact that the airplane has been spun and recovered (with or without a spin chute) satisfies my curiosity. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong places, but I was really surprised at the lack of information about the airplane's spin characteristics. Rest assured - I, for one, am not about to interpret your message as a license to go spin. As I noted earlier on, spins are not something I am interested in doing. I simply saw a gap in the "knowledge base" and began to wonder if anyone had explored the behavior/characteristics.
Thanks again!
Chad E. Carlson
Eastern Daylight Time ( UTC -4 )
"Pilots may be temporarily uncertain of their position, but they are never lost."
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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John Kirkland
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 19
Location: South Weber, UT
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Spins in a -10? |
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Vans also spin tested one of their factory birds, with a spin chute. Write up is on their website under the RV-10 specific information. They too lived to tell the tale.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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RV-10 #40333
N540XP (reserved) |
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johngoodman
Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Spins in a -10? |
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For a brief period I instructed spins in the Navy. Quite frankly, it's like practicing to bleed. Stall recovery training and avoidance of icing is what you need to know.
If you are morbidly curious about what would happen, have you thought about spins in a 747?
John
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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#40572 Phase One complete in 2011 |
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me(at)chadcarlson.com
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:54 am Post subject: Spins in a -10? |
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Hi John, All,
It seems "morbid curiosity" may have been a poor choice of words to use with
this medium. I extend my most sincere apologies if I have offended anyone. I
definitely did not intend to suggest, in any way, shape, or form, that I
derive some sort of satisfaction from activities that might result in the
loss of life or destruction of property. That is, most definitely, not the
case. Honestly, I was merely poking subtle fun at my own obsessive curiosity
with aviation in general, and the RV-10 in particular.
My use of the expression "morbid curiosity" was in the spirit of:
"Curiosity killed the cat. Satisfaction brought it back."
Again, my apologies for any misunderstanding.
Chad E. Carlson
www.chadcarlson.com
do not archive
"Pilots may be temporarily uncertain of their position, but they are never
lost."
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: Spins in a -10? |
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Chad,
Go easy on yourself....many flames worse than that have scorched this forum....It's just morbid has a delicate meaning here after the last few months. I was not offended, matter of fact I didn't even notice it until John pointed it out. Don't feel bad, it was just a misunderstanding, the question bought out some great information that I had not seen posted here before.
Rick Sked
40185, only my head spins, I avoid all others.
do not archive
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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