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occom
Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 404
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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My 1992 Mod IV 1050 was originally covered in the lightweight fabric that
was provided by Skystar. It was done extremely well in polyfiber and I had
no doubt about it's state until yesterday. I had given it a fair knock from
time to time and it always responded with the familiar low note. Yesterday I
accidentally bumped it with my elbow and went straight through the fuselage
side! It was right in the area that would have been beside the window in the
shed it was stored in before it was mine. I've patched it but I guess a
fuselage recover is the nest job on the list. There's no indication that the
polyspray is not adequate even with a very strong light. What is the proper
way to check fabric? Besides punching a 6" hole in it!
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Float Flyr
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 2704 Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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There is a special spring tool for applying pressure to the cloth if it
penetrates it's no good.
To check the bottom of your frame where rust can attack try putting about
twenty pounds of force on an awl if it penetrates the frame was rusty if it
doesn't put a spot of paint where you did the test.
Noel
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_________________ Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne Guest
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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Noel,
AC 43.13-1B, paragraph 2-34 says:
"2-34. FABRIC TESTING. Mechanical devices used to test fabric by pressing
against or piercing the finished fabric are not FAA approved and are used at
the discretion of the mechanic to base an opinion on the general fabric
condition. Punch test accuracy will depend on the individual device
calibration, total coating thickness, brittleness, and types of coatings and
fabric. Mechanical devices are not applicable to glass fiber fabric that
will easily shear and indicate a very low reading regardless of the true
breaking strength. If the fabric tests in the lower breaking strength range
with the mechanical punch tester or if the overall fabric cover conditions
are poor, then more accurate field tests may be made.
Cut a 1-1/4-inch wide by 4-inch long sample from a top exposed surface,
remove all coatings and ravel the edges to a 1-inch width. Clamp each end
between suitable clamps with one clamp anchored to a support structure while
a load is applied (see table 2-1) by adding sand in a suitable container
suspended a few inches above the floor. If the breaking strength is still in
question, a sample should be sent to a qualified testing laboratory and
breaking strength tests made in accordance with American Society of Testing
Materials (ASTM) publication D5035.
AC 43.13-1B 9/8/98
NOTE: ASTM publication D1682 has been discontinued but is still referred to
in some Aerospace Material Specification (AMS). The grab test method
previously listed in ASTM D1682, sections 1 through 16, has been superseded
by ASTM publication D5034.
The strip testing method (most commonly used in aircraft) previously listed
in ASTM D1682, sections 17
through 21, has been superseded by ASTM publication D5035."
It is true that these are experimental aircraft and the builder/repairman
does the work as he/she sees fit, but in my opinion, the punch test is not a
valid indication of fabric condition.
John Hart
KF IV
Wilburton, OK
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Tom Jones
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 752 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Lightweight fabric! |
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Can sunlight shine on the inside of the fabric where it ripped? I keep a cover over the turtle deck area to prevent ultraviolet rays from getting inside the fuselage. Also, the Kitfox builders manual offers an option for light weight which doesn't use poly spray. Could your plane have been covered using that method?
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_________________ Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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I was told (by a Polyfober rep) of a builder who used the light
fabric, and on the first taxi the guy didn't have his belt on, the
belt was hanging outside the plane and propwash flopped the belt
around until it hit the fabric and punched a hole in it.
On Apr 30, 2008, at 9:03 AM, Tom Jones wrote:
Quote: |
Can sunlight shine on the inside of the fabric where it ripped? I
keep a cover over the turtle deck area to prevent ultraviolet rays
from getting inside the fuselage. Also, the Kitfox builders manual
offers an option for light weight which doesn't use poly spray.
Could your plane have been covered using that method?
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180223#180223
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Float Flyr
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 2704 Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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While I agree with you and AC43 that the pull test is the definitive way.
The problem is you have to take a sample. I assumed that an amateur
wouldn't want to do that. The punch test is only a guide and should only be
taken as such. If your punch test result is questionable at all, then a
sample should be taken. Truth is if there is any question at all
...Recover.
Thanks
Noel
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_________________ Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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n85ae
Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 403
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Re: Lightweight fabric! |
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Personally I think an elbow going through the side is indicative of a
serious problem. You should NOT be able to accidentally knock a
hole in any weight of polyfiber fabric with your elbow. The tensile
strength of all the fabric in good shape is way beyond allowing that
to happen.
Regards,
Jeff
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Tom Jones
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Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 752 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: Re: Lightweight fabric! |
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I once watched an A&P mechanic demonstrate the strength of the fabric. He was recovering a pacer and someone who was not familiar with fabric covering mentioned that it really looked flimsy. The mechanic pushed his thumb on the covered elevator and held pressure on it until the fabric stretched up to base of his thumb nail. When he let go the dent stayed and the onlookers thought he had ruined the fabric. In a minute or so the dent disappeared and you couldn't tell where it had been. He then invited anyone to try to push a hole through the fabric with their thumb.
I used this demonstration a few times when I was covering my Kitfox and got caustic comments from visitors about my airplane made out of bed sheets and broomsticks.
The thumb dent test may be a way to check the rest of the fabric on the airplane.
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_________________ Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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occom
Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 404
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:04 am Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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occom
Joined: 26 Aug 2006 Posts: 404
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:10 am Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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Hi Noel, there was an article I read a while back about testing fabric, I
don't recall as much of it as I like to right about now but the jist of it
was that the punch method is destructive and prone to error. In many cases
it can be fooled by a coat of paint. (not my statement).
Dave G.
do not archive.
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n85ae
Joined: 14 Mar 2007 Posts: 403
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: Re: Lightweight fabric! |
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Hi -
Hmm. Well I tried my best to put a hole in some polyfiber when I was
fabric'ing my plane. It's very tough stuff. Unless you pushed it into
something sharp with your elbow there's no way you should have
been able to put a hole in it.
Jeff
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Float Flyr
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 2704 Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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It is only to be taken as a guide. Not a definitive test. Unfortunately The only real test involves taking a piece out of the plane.... any takers??? Other things to take into consideration would be the age of the cloth and the general appearance. Remember nothing lasts forever.
Noel Loveys
AME Intern, RPP
Kitfox III-A, 582,B box
Ivo IFA, Aerocet 1100 floats
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_________________ Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:05 am Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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Didn't he say that the damage occurred in an area where the sun had
shone through a window right onto the fabric when it belonged to a
previous owner?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
do not archive
On May 1, 2008, at 9:36 AM, n85ae wrote:
Quote: |
Hi -
Hmm. Well I tried my best to put a hole in some polyfiber when I was
fabric'ing my plane. It's very tough stuff. Unless you pushed it into
something sharp with your elbow there's no way you should have
been able to put a hole in it.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=180470#180470
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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temco(at)telusplanet.net Guest
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:24 am Post subject: Lightweight fabric! |
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Fellows
Here's a thought on this issue. As Lynn said below perhaps the previous
owner did 'not' apply the Ultra Violet inhibiting coat on the fabric as
required and the sun shining through the window caused this portion of the
fabric to deteriorate due to UV exposure over the period that it was in
storage. Is there any way of checking whether the UV protection coat was
applied??
Ted Palamarek
KF IV/912UL
Edmonton, Alberta
Subject: Re: Re: Lightweight fabric!
Didn't he say that the damage occurred in an area where the sun had
shone through a window right onto the fabric when it belonged to a
previous owner?
Lynn Matteson
Grass Lake, Michigan
Kitfox IV Speedster w/Jabiru 2200
flying w/490+ hrs
do not archive
On May 1, 2008, at 9:36 AM, n85ae wrote:
Quote: |
Hi -
Hmm. Well I tried my best to put a hole in some polyfiber when I was
fabric'ing my plane. It's very tough stuff. Unless you pushed it into
something sharp with your elbow there's no way you should have
been able to put a hole in it.
Jeff
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