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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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 Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:19 am Post subject: 100LL long term in 912 |
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Hi all,
I asked this over on the titan yahoo list also, but since there're long-term 912 operators here I'll ask the same thing here.
I'm sort of thinking ahead about the possible arrival of alcohol laced mogas here in NM (don't know if the bill passed but if it did, this'll start this coming january) and at that point I'll have to make a decision about my 912.
I'm considering just running 100LL when that happens as I (as well as Rotax) doesn't want 10% alcohol in the motor (corrosion is really my main concern 0 BTDT with alkeehaul).
My question is, does anyone, i.e. john h and john w., with long experience with the 912ULS know what the long term effects are of steady diets of 100LL? If it does whack a chunk of time off the TBO, how much would that be? I understand the slipper clutch and sprag clutch could be affected by it as well.
I looked through the archives and some of this has been discussed before, just wondering about field experience with long-term 100LL usage.
PS: and off topic: I might be getting one of my 503's back from the guy I sold it to, so it may need a project - perhaps another Kolb!
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: 100LL long term in 912 |
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| Quote: | My question is, does anyone, i.e. john h and john w., with long experience
with the 912ULS know what the long term effects are of steady diets of
100LL?
LS
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LS:
100LL is hard on the 912's due to lead residue.
Rotax says run a semisynthetic oil and change it often. I do that.
I also run Marvel Mystery Oil in the fuel. Does it help? I don't know for
sure, but would like to think it does. If it makes me happy, then it is ok
with me.
My 912 ran much colder and was prone to lead fouling sparkplugs.
Haven't had that problem with the 912ULS which runs much hotter.
At home I run 93 octane mogas, with or without alcohol. I noticed this last
mogas I bought at the country store and at Wal-Mart's has alcohol added.
I'll have to be diligent with fuel samples now to see if I get a water
problem.
Only time I run 100LL is on cross country flights when I can not get mogas.
When I change the oil, I also flush the oil tank with fuel, then take it
apart to insure I get all the lead out.
I have never put more than 1200+ hours on the previous two 912's I have
owned and operated. However, they were still in top notch shape when I sold
them.
john h
mkIII
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:09 am Post subject: 100LL long term in 912 |
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with long experience with the 912ULS know what the long term effects are of
steady diets of 100LL? If it does whack a chunk of time off the TBO, how
much would that be? I understand the slipper clutch and sprag clutch could
be affected by it as well.
| Quote: | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
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I don't use enough 100 ll to know nor have I spent the time to research the
affect on the slipper clutch and sprag clutch, the first things to happen
is the time between oil changes and spark plug replacements reduces to
1/2. Also the choice of oil has to be one that will hold the lead deposits
in suspension better. The synthetics seem to lubricate better when the
engine is running.. but the mineral oil seems to protect from corrosion
better when it is not running. I guess I try to get the best of both
worlds by using a synthetic / mineral oil blend.
Boyd
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Ralph B
Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: Re: 100LL long term in 912 |
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I'm still trying to decide what oil to use in my 912UL. Mark G, the previous owner, used Valvoline Duralube semi-synthetic because he used 100LL strictly. Maybe I'm a doubter, but the Valvoline oil may not be the best for gear lubrication. I plan on using autogas and 100LL if I cannot find autogas.
Some 912 users have switched to Honda GN4 motorcycle oil as it's designed for gear lubrication as well as the engine. I would like to use Honda's HP4, a semi-synthetic oil. Rotax says that motorcycle oil can be used with either type of fuel. If I could, Mobil 1 synthetic would be good, but Rotax states not to use it with autogas.
Is anyone using motorcycle oil in their 912?
Ralph
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Ralph B
Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours |
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John Williamson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 146
Location: Arlington, TX
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: Re: 100LL long term in 912 |
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Hi all you 912 and 912S flyers,
You can't go wrong by using an oil from the Rotax list of oils for the operation you are planning.
See SI-912-016 at
http://www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com/pdf/dokus/d04286.pdf
Rotax does make changes to the list, so you have to stay current.
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John Williamson
Arlington, TX
Kolbra, 912ULS, 1640 hours
http://home.tx.rr.com/kolbrapilot |
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:48 am Post subject: Re: 100LL long term in 912 |
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Ok, the consensus I'm getting over on the titan list is that the alkie is less harmful than the lead in 100LL - the reverse of what I thought. Also, that the alki containing gas appears to be ok out in the field, as long as the usual precautions are taken against water contamination, etc.
That's exactly the info I was looking for...... So I'll just run the alki containing stuff when it finally shows up here.
As for the oil, I know slightly more about that than gas, which I know next to nothing about 
I follow the listing of recommended oils in the Rotax bulletin, even tho the brands/formulas they list are the European versions (the US versions of some of these have a different formulation, tho who knows which of them do).
After that, I follow the service grade and weight requirements. The manual says an API spec of SF or SG so I make sure the stuff I use at least meets that grade.
For what it's worth, most of the automotive oils around these days meet API SL/SM, which exceeds the specs of most motorcycle oils I've seen (they're usually SG. later API specs are all backwards compatible and the later ones meet more stringent standards as well), so they're probably actually better lubricants.
If an oil is on the not recommended list from Rotax, I don't use it no matter what grade it is
Right now I run the valvoline durablend semi-synthetic at 10W40 weight, API service grade SM.
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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Possums
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: 100LL long term in 912 |
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At 09:59 AM 5/2/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com>
I have never put more than 1200+ hours on the previous two 912's I have owned and operated.
john h
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I completely agree with John, I have a 503 Rotax and try as I might, I have never put
1200 hours on mine either. Hell - I never thought it would get to 600 hrs without me having
to have it rebuilt. Now I'm thinking I can get to 800 hrs.
BTW: at 800 hours I'll just buy a new 503. Good deal - 10 years for $4,400
I have, however, put way over 700 hours on it without using PENNZOIL AIR COOLED 2 STROKE OIL
at all. I use DOT 3 - Walmart oil. Not because of the price, but because I used Pennzoil for 30 hours
just to see. It made the plugs dirtier faster. Oil is a cult/religion - so............do what makes you feel good. [quote][b]
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: 100LL long term in 912 |
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At 09:50 PM 5/3/2008, possums wrote:
| Quote: | I have, however, put way over 700 hours on it without using PENNZOIL AIR COOLED 2 STROKE OIL
at all. I use DOT 3 - Walmart oil... |
DOT3 is brake fluid, not motor oil.
-Dana
--
"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart.
If you are not a conservative when you're 30, you have no head."
-- Winston Churchill [quote][b]
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Possums
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: 100LL long term in 912 |
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At 10:08 PM 5/3/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | At 09:50 PM 5/3/2008, possums wrote:
| Quote: | I have, however, put way over 700 hours on it without using PENNZOIL AIR COOLED 2 STROKE OIL
at all. I use DOT 3 - Walmart oil... |
DOT3 is brake fluid, not motor oil.
-Dana
--
"If you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart.
If you are not a conservative when you're 30, you have no head."
-- Winston Churchill |
I use the WalMart Super Tech 2 cycle oil dot3- ??
You may be right about the "dot3" I'll look at the
bottle tomorrow..
[quote][b]
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