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AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

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uvtreith(at)t-online.de
Guest

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

Hi Craig,



Europa Aircraft is offering a fuel sender as MOD 60.

There are also a lot of other items they offer.

It's always quite good to check their homepages www.europa-aircraft.biz 



Best Regards,



Bruno Reith

Europa Aircraft Germany



-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----

Von: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] Im Auftrag von craig bastin

Gesendet: Samstag, 3. Mai 2008 11:29

An: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Betreff: RE: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.






Same as they run in most race cars, one problem I can see is that they still

havnt worked out the logistics

of a fuel sender as far as i am aware, so you would be stuck with the sight

glass level I guess, also from what

I have seen, you would be basically creating a new tank plus bladder, so

wouldnt the alloy tank be simpler

and cheaper. Other than that, it would probably be the overall best option,

if it is a proper fuel cell, then fuel surge

and vapours are virtually eliminated



craig



--

loboloda(at)execulink.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

It looks as if the failure rate for the plastic tanks is less than  

1%, I would imagine that

welded tanks will in time have their own share of problems.

Perhaps all that is required is for the factory to beef up the  

existing design a little , and ensure that

the tanks are well flourinated.



I checked for fuel smells in the system by attaching a sniffer hose  

to one side of my carbon

filter mask. Made for a good impression of an elephant, but I could  

not find any trace of a leak.



I get a whiff of fuel while flying in turbulent air, seems to be  

related to the tank venting onto the

fuselage, but I can't figure how it then finds its way into the cabin  

-  anyone have similar problems, or a

solution ?

Dave, C-FBZI

On 3-May-08, at 8:41 AM, UVTReith wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Europa Aircraft is offering a fuel sender as MOD 60.

 There are also a lot of other items they offer.

 It's always quite good to check their homepages www.europa- 

 aircraft.biz

 Bruno Reith

 Europa Aircraft Germany

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

On Saturday, May 3, 2008, at 07:00 US/Pacific, david miller wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   It looks as if the failure rate for the plastic tanks is less than 1%, 

 I would imagine that

 welded tanks will in time have their own share of problems. Perhaps 

 all that is required is for the factory to beef up the existing design 

 a little , and ensure that the tanks are well flourinated.


	


David,



Thank you for your optimism...I certainly hope your take on this holds 

up over time.



For myself (in the midst of my build w/ the top just clecoed in place 

and no fuel in the tank, I'm inclined to essentially live w/ the 

possibility of tank replacement at some time in the future.



I am laying up a stiff, full width FG strip, cushioned w/ 1/8" closed 

cell flexible foam, which will slide between the spacers and the front 

face of the tank in order to guard against potential tank contact w/ 

the aileron control rod; it will have a generous curve to allow for 

some bulging (but not so much as would interfere with the spars) and be 

bonded full width to the underside of the shelf layup. I'll post a pix 

in the next few days. I recognise that this may do nothing to alleviate 

potential cracking around the tunnel, and I'm looking into the 

possibility of some foam ala Ron Pagoris's postings.



This tank situation is giving me another reason to build a "spit" which 

would allow the fuselage to rotate 360 degrees; if a miraculous coating 

turns up which inhibits or eliminates entirely the propensity for fuel 

to be absorbed into the HDPE material, I would disconnect my fuel 

lines, stopper the openings, pour a gallon or so in the tank and give 

the entire fuselage about 10 revolutions in both directions.



jus rock and roll,



Fred

-- 

This message has been scanned for viruses and

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

Fred, Lance sandford has a hexagonal "spit" that bolts into the spar holes

and allows him to roll the

thing on its side/upside down very simple but does the job nicely, it was

made from about 25mm steel box

section, with gussets on the corners, he then just has a cradle for the tail

support. Being a hexagon, it stays

where you put it.



Do not Archive



--

rehn(at)rockisland.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

Fred

There are sloshing products for sealing the inside of fuel tanks. The

question is will they work in our tanks. I know they have it for fiberglass

and aluminum and some of the sloshes are epoxy based. We know epoxy sticks

to our tanks. Maybe you could check out Jeffco Products they make epoxy fuel

tank sealers. I am sure they will show up in a Google. Maybe they could tell

us if would make sense.

Jerry 



--

Venu Rao

Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 16
Location: Texas

Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

I spoke to Jim Nelson-whom many of you know- and venerable builder of  

A058 - which I now own.



He suggested I check with Bob Berube at Flight Crafters who he thinks  

is working on an aluminium tank retrofit for someone!



I'm emailing him to get details. Will update you shortly!



After speaking with Jim, I've decided to convert A058 to conventional  

gear through Bob. Might do the tank concurrently if its not too  

expensive.



Venu

Europa Mono - flying

A058 - 132.5 hrs

Austin, TX



On May 3, 2008, at 19:23, Jerry Rehn <rehn(at)rockisland.com> wrote:



[quote] 



 Fred

 There are sloshing products for sealing the inside of fuel tanks. The

 question is will they work in our tanks. I know they have it for  

 fiberglass

 and aluminum and some of the sloshes are epoxy based. We know epoxy  

 sticks

 to our tanks. Maybe you could check out Jeffco Products they make  

 epoxy fuel

 tank sealers. I am sure they will show up in a Google. Maybe they  

 could tell

 us if would make sense.

 Jerry



 --

_________________
Venu Rao
Austin, TX
Europa Mono
Builder: Jim Nelson
TTAE 119.1 hrs

tony.bale(at)virgin.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:18 am Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

Davin,

After flying with fuel smell off and on for three years (tight turns and

decent indused the odour), two weeks ago we put a concerted effort into

fixing the problem. We blew down the breather and then blanked it off

pressurising the system, head inside the cockpit and it stunk of fuel. It

turned out that the redux joint around the top of the filler tube (inside)

was not 100%. We re sealed it and today I took it for a good test. Best

flight ever - no fuel fumes at all.



T.



Original Message:

-----------------

From: david miller loboloda(at)execulink.com

Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 10:00:40 -0400

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.




It looks as if the failure rate for the plastic tanks is less than  

1%, I would imagine that

welded tanks will in time have their own share of problems.

Perhaps all that is required is for the factory to beef up the  

existing design a little , and ensure that

the tanks are well flourinated.



I checked for fuel smells in the system by attaching a sniffer hose  

to one side of my carbon

filter mask. Made for a good impression of an elephant, but I could  

not find any trace of a leak.



I get a whiff of fuel while flying in turbulent air, seems to be  

related to the tank venting onto the

fuselage, but I can't figure how it then finds its way into the cabin  

-  anyone have similar problems, or a

solution ?

Dave, C-FBZI

On 3-May-08, at 8:41 AM, UVTReith wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Europa Aircraft is offering a fuel sender as MOD 60.

 There are also a lot of other items they offer.

 It's always quite good to check their homepages www.europa- 

 aircraft.biz

 Bruno Reith

 Europa Aircraft Germany




	


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tony.bale(at)virgin.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 10:37 am Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

David,

After flying with fuel smell off and on for three years (tight turns and

decent indused the odour), two weeks ago we put a concerted effort into

fixing the problem. We blew down the breather and then blanked it off

pressurising the system, head inside the cockpit and it stunk of fuel. It

turned out that the redux joint around the top of the filler tube (inside)

was not 100%. We re sealed it and today I took it for a good test. Best

flight ever - no fuel fumes at all.



T.



Original Message:

-----------------

From: david miller loboloda(at)execulink.com

Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 10:00:40 -0400

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.




It looks as if the failure rate for the plastic tanks is less than  

1%, I would imagine that

welded tanks will in time have their own share of problems.

Perhaps all that is required is for the factory to beef up the  

existing design a little , and ensure that

the tanks are well flourinated.



I checked for fuel smells in the system by attaching a sniffer hose  

to one side of my carbon

filter mask. Made for a good impression of an elephant, but I could  

not find any trace of a leak.



I get a whiff of fuel while flying in turbulent air, seems to be  

related to the tank venting onto the

fuselage, but I can't figure how it then finds its way into the cabin  

-  anyone have similar problems, or a

solution ?

Dave, C-FBZI

On 3-May-08, at 8:41 AM, UVTReith wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Europa Aircraft is offering a fuel sender as MOD 60.

 There are also a lot of other items they offer.

 It's always quite good to check their homepages www.europa- 

 aircraft.biz

 Bruno Reith

 Europa Aircraft Germany




	


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loboloda(at)execulink.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

Thanks Tony,



I'll try that. I sealed the lowest hole on the rear of the breather,  

this was right flush with the top of the

fuselage. was up today and things were a bit better, but still the  

occasional whiff.

You are right, descending does tend to induce the smell.

Some builders, I think have re-located the vent to the bottom of the  

fuselage?, perhaps this is another option.



On another note, after flying last week, I could not figure out why  

the coolant had not returned from the overflow tank

to the system. I thought there must be a leak in the hose, but closer  

inspection revealed that the rather flimsy gasket in the rad cap

had moved and was not sealing the system. One more thing to add to my  

check list.



Dave



Do not archive

On 5-May-08, at 2:31 PM, tony.bale(at)virgin.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <tony.bale(at)virgin.net>



 David,

 After flying with fuel smell off and on for three years (tight  

 turns and

 decent indused the odour), two weeks ago we put a concerted effort  

 into

 fixing the problem. We blew down the breather and then blanked it off

 pressurising the system, head inside the cockpit and it stunk of  

 fuel. It

 turned out that the redux joint around the top of the filler tube  

 (inside)

 was not 100%. We re sealed it and today I took it for a good test.  

 Best

 flight ever - no fuel fumes at all.



 T.



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 mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?

 http://link.mail2web.com/Business/SharePoint

tony.bale(at)virgin.net
Guest

Posted: Mon May 05, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.

David,

There has been much correspondence in the past on breathers, but the

obvious observation is watch for syphoning your hard earned fuel out the

bottom, and the donkey going quiet up front (funny stuff air pressure)!



T.



Original Message:

-----------------

From: david miller loboloda(at)execulink.com

Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:11:32 -0400

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: AW: Fuel tank - bulges and leakage.




Thanks Tony,



I'll try that. I sealed the lowest hole on the rear of the breather,  

this was right flush with the top of the

fuselage. was up today and things were a bit better, but still the  

occasional whiff.

You are right, descending does tend to induce the smell.

Some builders, I think have re-located the vent to the bottom of the  

fuselage?, perhaps this is another option.



On another note, after flying last week, I could not figure out why  

the coolant had not returned from the overflow tank

to the system. I thought there must be a leak in the hose, but closer  

inspection revealed that the rather flimsy gasket in the rad cap

had moved and was not sealing the system. One more thing to add to my  

check list.



Dave



Do not archive

On 5-May-08, at 2:31 PM, tony.bale(at)virgin.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <tony.bale(at)virgin.net>



 David,

 After flying with fuel smell off and on for three years (tight  

 turns and

 decent indused the odour), two weeks ago we put a concerted effort  

 into

 fixing the problem. We blew down the breather and then blanked it off

 pressurising the system, head inside the cockpit and it stunk of  

 fuel. It

 turned out that the redux joint around the top of the filler tube  

 (inside)

 was not 100%. We re sealed it and today I took it for a good test.  

 Best

 flight ever - no fuel fumes at all.



 T.



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 mail2web.com – What can On Demand Business Solutions do for you?

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