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Tragic loss

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richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: Tragic loss

I am sorry to have to report the death of Patrick Debonne, one of the top air show pilots in France, flying a Yak-54.  It would seem that he had engine failure and a forced landing and then a fire but I have no more information at the moment.   

Richard   

  

Richard Goode Aerobatics  

Rhodds Farm  

Lyonshall  

Hereford  

HR5 3LW  

United Kingdom  

   

Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120  

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129  

www.russianaeros.com  

     [quote][b]

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: Tragic loss

My deepest sympathy to the family and friends of  Patrick.

 Dennis

 [quote]   ---

bhancock(at)worldwidewarb
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Tragic Loss

On May 6, 2008, at 11:58 PM, Yak-List Digest Server wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  

I am sorry to have to report the death of Patrick Debonne, one of the top 

air show pilots in France, flying a Yak-54.  It would seem that he had 

engine failure and a forced landing and then a fire but I have no more 

information at the moment.  



 

Richard  	




That is sad.  Gang, are we noticing anything here?  We do not have any details here, but this is the 3rd power loss and resultant fatal crash in our community in recent months.  Wasn't Sergei's crash an engine failure too?

When was the last time we practiced our EP's?  Better yet, when was the last time you rehearsed them in your head?  

Our equipment is so reliable it lulls us into complacency and puts at disregard the life and death matters of those few vital seconds and critical decisions that need to be instinctive in that time that could well spell the difference between a favorable and unfavorable outcome.  I, for one, don't rehearse as often as I should...

On this note we are having a Emergency Procedures seminar at All Red Star (May 14-1.   This takes recent real life accounts of engine failures (Bill Blackwell is going to tell his story) and combines them with an emergency egress and crash survival seminar by former USN Survival Training Specialist Noah Graeme.  Hopefully this will get us thinking about the things we often conveniently ignore most of the time...

Barry

PS  There is still time to register for All Red Star at http://www.flyredstar.org/helios//events/index.php?com=detail&eID=18

 [quote][b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:19 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

Sergei Boriak's crash was not from engine failure, even though he had a

rather extensively modified M-14PF, it was running like a sewing

machine.  Just wanted to clear the air on that fact. 



One thing more I would like to relate for folks who might be interested.

I was flying my 50 over the Outer Banks of North Carolina a few weeks

ago when the engine just stopped dead cold for a short period of time...

Probably no more than 5 - 10 seconds.  However it was enough time to

check fuel level, pressure, oil pressure, pump the primer and system

pressure a few times quickly, and then it was time to pick a place to

land on the beach.  As I was looking, the engine started running again,

but rather badly.  Some stumbles and surges, but enough power to keep

flying.  I took a chance and headed out over water directly for the

closest airport.  As I got over MRH airport, with it safely made, I

decided to check the one thing I had not to this point.  The MAGS.  When

I selected one mag, the engine started booming and banging horribly.  I

immediately switched to the other mag which ran really well, but with an

occasional miss.  The end of the story is that I climbed to 15,000 feet,

and then glided back to New Bern North Carolina with no further

problems. 



The left mag was bad.  I do not know what in it was bad.  The right mag

had failed about 100 hours earlier with sheared internal gearing.  It

just went Tango Uniform with no other indications.  Found it on engine

run up.  THIS MAG however, did something I have never experienced

before.  It made the whole engine STOP .... Which makes NO sense to

me... And then whatever it was "changed" to where the engine then RAN

.. Albeit pretty damn badly. How can this happen with two mags?  It's

beyond me, but it happened.   



The left mag was completely bad.  The right mag had one intermittent

spark plug wire.  Everything has been changed, engine runs perfectly

now.  



So.. The left mag failed within 100 hours of the right mag failing.  The

engine has about 780 hours on it.   



Just something to consider along with everything else.  



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK





--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

In a message dated 5/7/2008 4:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14    64E" mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil) 	
 I had a very similar happening.  It turned out to be a missing  Woodruff key on the rotor shaft.  The mag was a Chinese mag that I was  using on my M-14p at the time.  The mag had 250+ hours since its  "overhaul".  The only thing that had been holding the gear in place on the  shaft was the nut and its lock washer.  My engine didn't totally quite  although I thought it was going to.

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Sergei Boriak's crash was not from engine failure, even though    he had a

rather extensively modified M-14PF, it was running like a    sewing

machine.  Just wanted to clear the air on that fact.    



One thing more I would like to relate for folks who might be    interested.

I was flying my 50 over the Outer Banks of North Carolina a few    weeks

ago when the engine just stopped dead cold for a short period of    time...

Probably no more than 5 - 10 seconds.  However it was enough    time to

check fuel level, pressure, oil pressure, pump the primer and    system

pressure a few times quickly, and then it was time to pick a place    to

land on the beach.  As I was looking, the engine started running    again,

but rather badly.  Some stumbles and surges, but enough power    to keep

flying.  I took a chance and headed out over water directly    for the

closest airport.  As I got over MRH airport, with it safely    made, I

decided to check the one thing I had not to this point.  The    MAGS.  When

I selected one mag, the engine started booming and banging    horribly.  I

immediately switched to the other mag which ran really    well, but with an

occasional miss.  The end of the story is that I    climbed to 15,000 feet,

and then glided back to New Bern North Carolina    with no further

problems. 



The left mag was bad.  I do not know    what in it was bad.  The right mag

had failed about 100 hours earlier    with sheared internal gearing.  It

just went Tango Uniform with no    other indications.  Found it on engine

run up.  THIS MAG however,    did something I have never experienced

before.  It made the whole    engine STOP .... Which makes NO sense to

me... And then whatever it was    "changed" to where the engine then RAN

... Albeit pretty damn badly. How    can this happen with two mags?  It's

beyond me, but it    happened.   



The left mag was completely bad.  The right    mag had one intermittent

spark plug wire.  Everything has been    changed, engine runs perfectly

now.  



So.. The left mag failed    within 100 hours of the right mag failing.  The

engine has about 780    hours on it.   



Just something to consider along with    everything else.  



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK



   

	


Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:08 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

Mark,

 You might be a victim of the Russian and Chinese for that matter, overhaul system in which they just look at a part and make a decision rather or not in their opinion the part will last another 500 hours.  Hal Provo just bought a M14P that had absolutly trash on it for mags and it was a fresh overhaul.  Of course if your engine is "since new" and the mag numbers match those in the back of the engine log it's a different story.   Personally if I install a overhauled engine in my aircraft the first thig I do is change out the mags for factory new ones.  In my opinion (at) $750.00 each it's the best money I can spend.

   

 



 

 On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 1:51 PM, <cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		     In a message dated 5/7/2008 4:21:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil) writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14 64E" mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil) 	
 

 I had a very similar happening.  It turned out to be a missing Woodruff key on the rotor shaft.  The mag was a Chinese mag that I was using on my M-14p at the time.  The mag had 250+ hours since its "overhaul".  The only thing that had been holding the gear in place on the shaft was the nut and its lock washer.  My engine didn't totally quite although I thought it was going to.

   

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

   

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Sergei Boriak's crash was not from engine failure, even though he had a

 rather extensively modified M-14PF, it was running like a sewing

machine.  Just wanted to clear the air on that fact. 



One thing more I would like to relate for folks who might be interested.

I was flying my 50 over the Outer Banks of North Carolina a few weeks

 ago when the engine just stopped dead cold for a short period of time...

Probably no more than 5 - 10 seconds.  However it was enough time to

check fuel level, pressure, oil pressure, pump the primer and system

pressure a few times quickly, and then it was time to pick a place to

 land on the beach.  As I was looking, the engine started running again,

but rather badly.  Some stumbles and surges, but enough power to keep

flying.  I took a chance and headed out over water directly for the

closest airport.  As I got over MRH airport, with it safely made, I

 decided to check the one thing I had not to this point.  The MAGS.  When

I selected one mag, the engine started booming and banging horribly.  I

immediately switched to the other mag which ran really well, but with an

 occasional miss.  The end of the story is that I climbed to 15,000 feet,

and then glided back to New Bern North Carolina with no further

problems. 



The left mag was bad.  I do not know what in it was bad.  The right mag

 had failed about 100 hours earlier with sheared internal gearing.  It

just went Tango Uniform with no other indications.  Found it on engine

run up.  THIS MAG however, did something I have never experienced

before.  It made the whole engine STOP .... Which makes NO sense to

 me... And then whatever it was "changed" to where the engine then RAN

... Albeit pretty damn badly. How can this happen with two mags?  It's

beyond me, but it happened.   



The left mag was completely bad.  The right mag had one intermittent

 spark plug wire.  Everything has been changed, engine runs perfectly

now.  



So.. The left mag failed within 100 hours of the right mag failing.  The

engine has about 780 hours on it.   



Just something to consider along with everything else.  

 

Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK



 

	






   Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

   	  Quote: 	
		  

	




	


-- 

Always Yakin,

Doug Sapp

Phone 509-826-4610

Fax 509-826-3644   [quote][b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

Thanks all for your thoughtful inputs.  I have benefited from reading

your thoughts and experiences.  



Doug... My mags were "since new".  My engine is a "first run" and I have

the logs.  Your thoughts on mag replacement seems to be very well

founded.  Lesson learned on my part. 



Mark Bitterlich



P.s.  Interesting thought on the woodruff key as well Pappy.  I am

trying to think how I could check that easily.. But without removing

that bottom adjustment assy., I can't think how!  Can you SEE it?  I am

going home tonight and check!  



--

B747crew

Joined: 04 Nov 2007
Posts: 20

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

That stuff will get your ass tight enough to make a diamond.Â  Â Jack

 

 

 --

_________________
Jack Snodgrass
4305 Claridge Ct.
Apex, NC 27539
919-745-7434

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

I neglected to add that part. 



Yes... Turning away from land (even though it was nothing but sand

dunes) to fly over rough cold water, with no boats in sight, at 100

feet, barely keeping altitude with an engine slinging M-80's every few

seconds did indeed negate the need for toilet paper for quite some time.

Thank you Jesus.    



Mark Bitterlich 

N50YK (happy to say) 



 



--

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 6:00 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

Went down that the road with a bad mag too! It is never fun to turn away

from the runway to get landing spacing!

Doc



--

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:33 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

In a message dated 5/7/2008 6:45:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  -->    Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV Det Cherry Point, MALS-14    64E" mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil) 	
  

 Its actually fairly easy to check.  If you take off the mag cap,  you'll see the rotor.  Simply try to turn it.  If it turns the  woodruff key is out or the shaft is sheared.  With the woodruff key out the  gear below the rotor next to the coil is allowed to spin freely, throwing off  the internal timing of the mag.  To see the gear itself, you would have to  remove the mag and than remove that side section that gives you access to the  coil.  That gear is right there.  You can't see the woodruff key if  the gear is properly mounted.  

  

 Pappy

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks all for your thoughtful inputs.  I have benefited    from reading

your thoughts and experiences.  



Doug... My mags    were "since new".  My engine is a "first run" and I have

the    logs.  Your thoughts on mag replacement seems to be very    well

founded.  Lesson learned on my part. 



Mark    Bitterlich



P.s.  Interesting thought on the woodruff key as well    Pappy.  I am

trying to think how I could check that easily.. But    without removing

that bottom adjustment assy., I can't think how!  Can    you SEE it?  I am

going home tonight and    check!  



        

       

________________________________



--

Always Yakin,

Doug    Sapp

Phone 509-826-4610

Fax 509-826-3644 

	
 

  



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

Never thought of the obvious.  Thanks Pappy. 



Mark

 



--

wlannon(at)persona.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Tragic Loss

A caution note here folks. 

 If you are able to rotate the rotor through an angle of about 10 to 12  degs. and it returns to original position on release don't go yanking the  mag.

 You have an auto advance magneto type M9, M9-25M, M9-35M (which will turn a  little further) or a Chinese CD-5. 

 These are not standard for the M14P (should be M9F) but there may be some  out there replacing the original fixed spark M9F. I know of at least one such  M14P.

  

 Walt

 [quote]   ---

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