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Aging Aircraft

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ChangDriver

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 266

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 8:37 am Post subject: Aging Aircraft

After the numerous posts on engine power loss and resulting fatalities and non-fatal outcomes, it makes me wonder about how we are maintaining our aircraft.  AOPA, Aviation Safety, and the FAA all have recently taken a hard look at this issue.  While not all CJs and Yaks are "older" there could be things we can learn from reviewing these materials.  



In the recent issue of Aviation Safety, it was noted that metal fatigue is not an age issue, but a how it is used issue.  Hence, more g-loading, aerobatics, etc and the possibility of metal fatigue increases.  Importantly, the article brings up that wiring is a totally different issue and that wiring does wear out over time.



Interesting to note was the comment form the tear down of aircraft that operated in Part 135 ops, was that "...fatigue it (ed. NIAR) found was almost universally instigated by improper maintenance practices and errors in aircraft inspection and repair.  Age alone was not a factor in fatigue damage except that more inspections and repairs over time meant a greater chance of maintenance errors."



So, give the recent increase in loss of engine power accidents/occurrences, is there something we should be doing differently as a community when we annual our aircraft?  Any ideas?



Craig

viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: Aging Aircraft

So, give the recent increase in loss of engine power accidents/occurrences,

is there something we should be doing differently as a community when we

annual our aircraft?  Any ideas?



Craig



Craig,

If I may suggest, take Dennis Savarese's maintenance course. You will be

well prepared to maintain your Red Star Aircraft in a safe airworthy manor.

His 3 page annual check list will keep you on track. The aircraft

maintenance manual will offer great guidance on how to perform the tech

order. That is if the Chinese were as OCD as the Russians were. It will

pretty much verbatim tell you what to do and when. Not all of us find

reading the maintenance manual a favorite bedtime novel but some like

Dennis, Doug and others have. Having done that, they are light years ahead

of us that just wanna go fly but do periodic maintenance because it is our

rosey pink that is sitting in the pit!

Now the other thing we could do is set up a collective IRAN facility here in

the US, for those of us that live in the US (of course our international

friends could ship their aircraft here for the IRAN since our labor is

cheaper now). Since the US dollar is doing so splendidly on the

international market. It would be cheaper doing it here than shipping them

back across the pond for their IRANS.

Doc

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: Aging Aircraft

Thanks for the "plug" Doc.  Actually, for the 52 there's an 18 page annual 

condition inspection guide available too.

Dennis



---

petervs(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 10:27 am Post subject: Aging Aircraft

We've augmented a condition inspection checklist and it is now 24 pages.

Some are calling it a restoration checklist, but if you actually do it all

there is no stone left unturned.



Pete



--

ChangDriver

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 266

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: Re: Aging Aircraft

Guys, thanks for the reply.  



On further reading in Aviation Safety and FAA docs, the concept of a Super Annual is recommended.  Many of the type clubs have adopted this policy.  While Dennis has provided a document for the 52 (that has been supplemented to 24 pages), I know of no such document for the CJ.  



In addition, the Super Annual concept requires there to be data kept on the replacement intervals between parts so preventive maintenance can be done.  For instance, when a mag is changed out, a type club is notified of when and how much in service time the mag has.  This way a repository of data on major components of the aircraft can be kept.  



This data would be useful for PM as it may be able to predict failure of some components.  In my opinion, the RPA as out type club would be the perfect organization to do this.



With hard facts, the timing between Super Annuals and "regular annuals" can be determined.



Any additional thought from the community on this?



Craig

cpayne(at)joimail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: Aging Aircraft

The General Condition inspection may be the rule, but another practice is to follow the mfgr's guidelines for specific intervals on parts/systems. I believe the Best practice is to use a combination of those as well as the way the A/C is used. As in frequent hard acro? Long periods of sitting idle in the hanger? Hot and humid ops? etc.



I have updated and corrected the old Yak Club annual checklist and it is available under Manuals in the RPA store. The checklist is merely a way to track progress, the real how-to is in the manuals. Also see the specific procedures outlined in in tech articles also in the store.



Having an aging brain in a still-healthy body is challenging so my best practice is to write down everything i do to the airplane. What is in the logs is merely an abstract. I keep detailed notes in folders documenting what I did so that I can review it all before both my annual and mid-year annual.



Now I did buy some Smart Pills to improve my memory, but I can't seem to remember where I put them....

Craig Payne

talew(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: Aging Aircraft

Craig.

I believe I gave you such a document that was compiled by Bud Harold for the 

CJ . About six pages.

Terry Lewis

---

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:09 pm Post subject: Aging Aircraft

I think that few Western owners of Yaks would want to follow the official 

maintenance instructions for Yak aircraft.

For the 52 this involves a TOTAL disassembly and rebuild as a new aircraft 

every 600 hours.

Of course their use was very arduous in a way that very few,if any,are used 

in the West.

Richard

Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

United Kingdom



Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is 

+94 779 132 160.



---

fish(at)aviation-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Aging Aircraft

Craig,



I brought up the issue of tracking maintenance and failures,

several years ago at All Red Star to Pappy and Berry. The

idea was rejected as being to time consuming with no one to

collalate the info. My reply was if we do not do it, we will

eventually be in the same boat as the T-34 owners trying to

prove our aircraft are safe to fly.



If we start collating data now, when the FAA attemps to

ground us like the T-34's, we would have the data to refute

them. We could also come up with more realistic times for

parts replacement (we all know the Russian/Chineese times

are conservative), based on hard data.



There is currently a good article in April 2008, Sport

Aviation on calulating component failure rates.



Fly Safe

John Fischer

Yak-52, N213YA

California City, CA



----- Original Message Follows -----

From: "Craig Winkelmann, CFI" <capav8r(at)gmail.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Aging Aircraft

Date: Thu,  8 May 2008 16:18:16 -0700



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <capav8r(at)gmail.com>

 

 Guys, thanks for the reply.  

 

 On further reading in Aviation Safety and FAA docs, the

 concept of a Super Annual is recommended.  Many of the

 type clubs have adopted this policy.  While Dennis has

 provided a document for the 52 (that has been supplemented

 to 24 pages), I know of no such document for the CJ.  

 

 In addition, the Super Annual concept requires there to be

 data kept on the replacement intervals between parts so

 preventive maintenance can be done.  For instance, when a

 mag is changed out, a type club is notified of when and

 how much in service time the mag has.  This way a

 repository of data on major components of the aircraft can

 be kept.  

 

 This data would be useful for PM as it may be able to

 predict failure of some components.  In my opinion, the

 RPA as out type club would be the perfect organization to

 do this.

 

 With hard facts, the timing between Super Annuals and

 "regular annuals" can be determined.

 

 Any additional thought from the community on this?

 

 Craig

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182028#182028

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ====

jorgen.nielsen(at)mweb.co
Guest

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:41 am Post subject: Aging Aircraft

Mine recently came out of the 600hr inspection / overhaul as per approved UK CAA / Yak design Bureau process.



(Thanks again Richard!!!)



So yes complete disassembly, xray/check and rebuild.  It cost me an arm and a leg but I am glad I did it.  We found cracks in the engine mount which was repaired, some engine mount bolts had worn and had to be replaced.  No way you would have found that in normal inspection, only a teardown, xray and miking the bolts revealed the issues.  When or if these would have failed is hard to say.  The list of parts that were xrayed or checked via other means was lengthly.



Lots of new parts.  All lifed items replaced at the same time (e.g. hoses).



Lots of work spent on little repairs and "mini overhauls" like rebuilding actuators - that added up. 



This all on a 1994 airframe bought new from factory, always hangared, always on top of normal maintenance by experienced Russian engineer as per normal category aircraft.



As I said, I am glad I did it.



Jorgen



--

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:26 am Post subject: Aging Aircraft

By way of explation,the 600 hour inspection procedure refered to by Jorgen 

is a compromise we managed to reach with Yakolev in Moscow and the UK 

CAA,who were expecting all UK 52's to go through the total Russian 600 hour 

rebuild.

We were able to persuade Yakovlev that Western use was much less arduous 

than Russian DOSAAF use and we now have a very detailed 600 hour/15 year 

inspection which involves removal of wings;tail;engine etc. and NDT/X-Ray 

inspection of everything;mandatory change of various bolts,and then 

reassembly.

In the UK,at a labour rate of about $70 per hour it costs about $6000 on top 

of an annual/100 hour check.

Still cheaper than a total rebuild!!

Richard

Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

United Kingdom



Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com

I’m currently in Sri Lanka but this Mail is working,and my local phone is 

+94 779 132 160.



---

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