Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Landing the 701

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith701801-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

george.mueller(at)aurora.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: Landing the 701

I have a question for those who have been flying their 701s for a while.  For most of the other airplanes I have flown, the landings go like this:  The mains gently kiss the runway, chrip chirp, and the nosewheel is held off and gently and slowly comes down as the energy dissipates. (Ok, that happens some of the time).  When I land my 701, the mains touch down more or less gently, but the nosewheel immediately plunks down.  The closest I have come to being able to hold the nosewheel off is to hold 3,000 RPM (with an 80hp rotax) all the way down final, and this gives me enough energy to hold the nosewheel off. This seems like a lot of power to carry into the flare.  Is the three wheel plunkdown just the way it is?  Is there something wrong with my rigging (incidence of horizontal stabilizer, etc)?  I do have vortex generators on the elevator.  I do not have a forward CG at all, as I have a BRS in the baggage compartment and a rotax up front.  Does anyone have any tips?  I am thinking of installing an angle of attack indicator to more precisely control things in the landing.   

 

 

George in Milwaukee 

N701GM 912UL 20hrs [quote][b]

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: Landing the 701

George, sounds to me like you might need to increase

your approach speed a little(lower the nose during

final).  This will give you a bit more energy to use

during the flair.  You didn't mention what you were

using as an approach speed.



Take this with a grain of salt though as I am basing

this on general light plane expirience and not on

specific 701 expirience as I am currently still

building and have zero hours in a 701.



The Angle of Attack indicator or Lift Reserve

Indicator would probably be a big help in this

situation.



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch Builder

Canadian Ultralight flight instructor



Do Not Archive



--- george.mueller(at)aurora.org wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   I have a question for those who have been flying

 their 701s for a while. 

 For most of the other airplanes I have flown, the

 landings go like this: 

 The mains gently kiss the runway, chrip chirp, and

 the nosewheel is held 

 off and gently and slowly comes down as the energy

 dissipates. (Ok, that 

 happens some of the time).  When I land my 701, the

 mains touch down more 

 or less gently, but the nosewheel immediately plunks

 down.  The closest I 

 have come to being able to hold the nosewheel off is

 to hold 3,000 RPM 

 (with an 80hp rotax) all the way down final, and

 this gives me enough 

 energy to hold the nosewheel off. This seems like a

 lot of power to carry 

 into the flare.  Is the three wheel plunkdown just

 the way it is?  Is 

 there something wrong with my rigging (incidence of

 horizontal stabilizer, 

 etc)?  I do have vortex generators on the elevator. 

 I do not have a 

 forward CG at all, as I have a BRS in the baggage

 compartment and a rotax 

 up front.  Does anyone have any tips?  I am thinking

 of installing an 

 angle of attack indicator to more precisely control

 things in the landing. 

  

 

 

 George in Milwaukee

 N701GM 912UL 20hrs


	


Be a better friend, newshound, and 

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: Landing the 701

Almost everyone who flies a 701 / 801 has this same observation. It must the geometry of the airframe to landing gear placement. My 801 does the same thing,, for short landing I carry alot of power, keep it nose high and as slow as I feel safe for the wind conditions and just expect the nose wheel to hit rather firmly... The current fix is the reverse the main gear and that puts the rear wheels farther forward making it less prone to slam the nose down but in the 801,s case you have to notch the gear to fit the attach bracket. If I reverse mine I would have to elongate those notches and that is something I don't want to do. 

Tailwinds

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- george.mueller(at)aurora.org wrote:



I have a question for those who have been flying their 701s for a while.  For most of the other airplanes I have flown, the landings go like this:  The mains gently kiss the runway, chrip chirp, and the nosewheel is held off and gently and slowly comes down as the energy dissipates. (Ok, that happens some of the time).  When I land my 701, the mains touch down more or less gently, but the nosewheel immediately plunks down.  The closest I have come to being able to hold the nosewheel off is to hold 3,000 RPM (with an 80hp rotax) all the way down final, and this gives me enough energy to hold the nosewheel off. This seems like a lot of power to carry into the flare.  Is the three wheel plunkdown just the way it is?  Is there something wrong with my rigging (incidence of horizontal stabilizer, etc)?  I do have vortex generators on the elevator.  I do not have a forward CG at all, as I have a BRS in the baggage compartment and a rotax up front.  Does anyone have any tips?  I am thinking of installing an angle of attack indicator to more precisely control things in the landing.   

George in Milwaukee 

N701GM 912UL 20hrs  	  Quote: 	
		  



====================================

1-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================

www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================



	
 



_____________________________________________________________

Click for online loan, fast & no lender fee, approval today

   [quote][b]

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

dougsnash

Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Landing the 701

Unfortunately, reversing the 701 landing gear won't

help as it is not a tapered part as in the 601 or 801.



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch builder

NW Ontario, Canada



Do not archive



--- "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Almost everyone who flies a 701 / 801 has this same

 observation. It must the geometry of the airframe to

 landing gear placement. My 801 does the same thing,,

 for short landing I carry alot of power, keep it

 nose high and as slow as I feel safe for the wind

 conditions and just expect the nose wheel to hit

 rather firmly... The current fix is the reverse the

 main gear and that puts the rear wheels farther

 forward making it less prone to slam the nose down

 but in the 801,s case you have to notch the gear to

 fit the attach bracket. If I reverse mine I would

 have to elongate those notches and that is something

 I don't want to do.

 Tailwinds

 

 

 Ben Haas

 N801BH

 www.haaspowerair.com


	


Be a better friend, newshound, and 

know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: Landing the 701

What I have learned in this years is that this  condition (heavy nose wheel)  is a bonus,  is part of the stability of the airplane in the ground...  desingned in the Zenith airplanes  (for low hours a year pilots).

   

   I have landed in some grass strips that are  far from   Golf course quality    and in the roll out or "fasterly" taxi  the front wheel bounces...   Could hit the tail if was more light loaded.

   

  In the time I have flying ours (me about 80 of the total hours, others are my brothers)   We have developed an instinctive way to hold the nose wheel up at roll out and then gentle let it go when the elevator is loosing force,  most of the times it does not bounce,  but on the other side, some of the bounces of the front wheel are capable of ashame me in front of pilots  

   

   Saludos

  Gary Gower.

  Do not archive.



MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug 



Unfortunately, reversing the 701 landing gear won't

help as it is not a tapered part as in the 601 or 801.



Doug MacDonald

CH-701 Scratch builder

NW Ontario, Canada



Do not archive



--- "n801bh(at)netzero.com" wrote:



[quote] Almost everyone who flies a 701 / 801 has this same

 observation. It must the geometry of the airframe to

 landing gear placement. My 801 does the same thing,,

 for short landing I carry alot of power, keep it

 nose high and as slow as I feel safe for the wind

 conditions and just expect the nose wheel to hit

 rather firmly... The current        Be a better friend, newshound, and  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

peterlthomson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:29 am Post subject: Landing the 701

I put my VG's under the elevator (www.stolspeed.com) and find I can hold the nosewheel off the ground on a fast taxi.



Occasionally I get the nosewheel plunking down or a 3pter, but most usually it is mains first and then the nosewheel in orderly fashion.

 

It took a while to get there as 701 quite different to the feel of larger GA a/c, etc.  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

321PT

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Texas

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Landing the 701

You are right in holding power to keep the nose off.  Without power you just sort of land and park it at the same time.  Makes for a short landing though.

 I fly my approach at 55 MPH with 3,000 RPM to touchdown.  It help makes the squeaky landings.  If I am flying at gross wt. my RPM will be as high as 3,200.  This makes for a more "conventional" landing.

 It doesn't sound like you have anything wrong with your rigging.

 I had a jet jockey who had a 701 tell me this was the hardest plane to land he had ever flown.  I haven't had that experience.  Maybe it is because I don't have that much experience to compare it to.  I'm having a blast with mine.

 Paul Tipton

 321PT

 180 hours

  [quote][b]

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Landing the 701

My tailwheel instructor claimed the absolute hardest pilots he ever taught

to fly light planes were Jet Jockeys .... 



I've mostly flown tailwheel for the last eight years, seems like some tail 

wheel instruction my help. I realize before anybody jumps on me, that 

tri-gear 701's are totally different. However I became a much better

tri-gear pilot after I got my tailwheel endorsement.



I think a lot has to do with learning to land the airplane 3-pt, and also

how to do wheel landings helps put you much more in tune with landing

speed and aircraft attitude.



One thing that I have noticed flying with a some  tri-gear drivers is

that some are not very adept at carrying the nose during landing and

tend to land flat. Which if you do in a taildragger will lead to an enormous bounce. 



Not saying it's a cure, but it's good instruction that might help.



Ok, flame away 



regards,

Jeff

- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith701801-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum