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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:57 am Post subject: stalls |
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The stall thread reminds me that during one holiday many years ago I had a couple of glider flights with a club called the Flying Seminoles down around Okeefenokee way. In a Schweitzer if I remember.
While hangar flying with some guys in the clubhouse one of them was relating the story of a flight he made with a certain pilot.. He said `We came over the hedge at full load with the stall warning yelling its f**********n head off. I leaned over the pilots shoulder and pushed the stick forward.. He was mad as hell``
There was a pause and the story teller continued " Hell, he sure was a sloppy flyer"
Guess you had to be there.
Cheers
Pat
[quote][b]
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: Re: stalls |
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[quote="pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com"]The stall thread reminds me that during one holiday many years ago I had a couple of glider flights with a club called the Flying Seminoles down around Okeefenokee way. In a Schweitzer if I remember.
While hangar flying with some guys in the clubhouse one of them was relating the story of a flight he made with a certain pilot.. He said `We came over the hedge at full load with the stall warning yelling its f**********n head off. I leaned over the pilots shoulder and pushed the stick forward.. He was mad as hell``
There was a pause and the story teller continued " Hell, he sure was a sloppy flyer"
Guess you had to be there.
Cheers
Pat
I know this is a little bit off the topic of Kolbs, but it's funny how getting into a glider will magnify almost every little sloppiness you have in your flying by about 28,000 times........
Stall recognition and recovery is one of those, since you spend a large amount of time flying in super rough air at minimum sink airspeed, a condition where you're right below stall AOA.
Even small gusts in the tailwind direction easily put you past the critical AOA and into a "gust stall". This happened to me yesterday 4 or 5 times during my lesson in the Grob 103 - recovery always involved flying by reference to pitch attitude and rarelyby airspeed.
When you're on the tow is another place the ASI can fool you. Lot of thimes, it'll read that you're pretty well above stall speed, but in fact you're pretty close to the critical AOA, a dangerous situation in case of a rope break with an inattentive pilot at the controls......
My CFI-G calls pitch attitude the "lifeblood" of flying an airplane, I think that's probably the best I've ever heard that put by anyone.....
LS
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LS
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: stalls |
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remember, no matter your airspeed or what your position is in the
sky, you can't stall at 0 G.
BB
do not archive
On 13, May 2008, at 1:20 PM, lucien wrote:
| Quote: |
[quote="pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com"]The stall thread reminds me that
during one holiday many years ago I had a couple of glider flights
with a club called the Flying Seminoles down around Okeefenokee
way. In a Schweitzer if I remember.
While hangar flying with some guys in the clubhouse one of them
was relating the story of a flight he made with a certain pilot..
He said `We came over the hedge at full load with the stall
warning yelling its f**********n head off. I leaned over the
pilots shoulder and pushed the stick forward.. He was mad as hell``
There was a pause and the story teller continued " Hell, he sure
was a sloppy flyer"
Guess you had to be there.
Cheers
Pat
> [b]
I know this is a little bit off the topic of Kolbs, but it's funny
how getting into a glider will magnify almost every little
sloppiness you have in your flying by about 28,000 times........
Stall recognition and recovery is one of those, since you spend a
large amount of time flying in super rough air at minimum sink
airspeed, a condition where you're right below stall AOA.
Even small gusts in the tailwind direction easily put you past the
critical AOA and into a "gust stall". This happened to me yesterday
4 or 5 times during my lesson in the Grob 103 - recovery always
involved flying by reference to pitch attitude and rarelyby airspeed.
When you're on the tow is another place the ASI can fool you. Lot
of thimes, it'll read that you're pretty well above stall speed,
but in fact you're pretty close to the critical AOA, a dangerous
situation in case of a rope break with an inattentive pilot at the
controls......
My CFI-G calls pitch attitude the "lifeblood" of flying an
airplane, I think that's probably the best I've ever heard that put
by anyone.....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182959#182959
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: stalls |
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Of course at zero airspeed it's fallin' not stallin' 
BB
On 13, May 2008, at 1:20 PM, lucien wrote:
| Quote: |
[quote="pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com"]The stall thread reminds me that
during one holiday many years ago I had a couple of glider flights
with a club called the Flying Seminoles down around Okeefenokee
way. In a Schweitzer if I remember.
While hangar flying with some guys in the clubhouse one of them
was relating the story of a flight he made with a certain pilot..
He said `We came over the hedge at full load with the stall
warning yelling its f**********n head off. I leaned over the
pilots shoulder and pushed the stick forward.. He was mad as hell``
There was a pause and the story teller continued " Hell, he sure
was a sloppy flyer"
Guess you had to be there.
Cheers
Pat
> [b]
I know this is a little bit off the topic of Kolbs, but it's funny
how getting into a glider will magnify almost every little
sloppiness you have in your flying by about 28,000 times........
Stall recognition and recovery is one of those, since you spend a
large amount of time flying in super rough air at minimum sink
airspeed, a condition where you're right below stall AOA.
Even small gusts in the tailwind direction easily put you past the
critical AOA and into a "gust stall". This happened to me yesterday
4 or 5 times during my lesson in the Grob 103 - recovery always
involved flying by reference to pitch attitude and rarelyby airspeed.
When you're on the tow is another place the ASI can fool you. Lot
of thimes, it'll read that you're pretty well above stall speed,
but in fact you're pretty close to the critical AOA, a dangerous
situation in case of a rope break with an inattentive pilot at the
controls......
My CFI-G calls pitch attitude the "lifeblood" of flying an
airplane, I think that's probably the best I've ever heard that put
by anyone.....
LS
--------
LS
FS II
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=182959#182959
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: stalls |
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When you're on the tow is another place the ASI can fool you>.
Hi Lucien,
It doesn`t matter if you watch the ASI or an AOA indicator if you listen to
the glider and feel that slight judder, get the stick forward sharpish and
you should head off a stall everytime. I was taught NOT so much `stall
recovery` but RECOGNITION of a stall before it happens. Gliders pilots who
are thermalling in a gaggle of say 20 other gliders all banked at 30 degrees
or more 5 knots above the stall all in an area a few hundred yards across
will have his ears on the audio for the vario and his eyes outside, not
watching instruments. Glider pilots will just ease the back pressure
slightly when that `judder` occurs as they can`t afford to lose the height
which a power pilot can easily recover.
If you want to see some incredible glider flying see Youtube under `Nutter
at Kemble` (I think) there is film of a display at at Kemble Air Day with
the glider pilot doing rolls while still on aerotow. Also mirror flying with
the tug.Fantastic.
Cheers
Pat
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lucien
Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: Re: stalls |
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| pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: | When you're on the tow is another place the ASI can fool you>.
Hi Lucien,
It doesn`t matter if you watch the ASI or an AOA indicator if you listen to
the glider and feel that slight judder, get the stick forward sharpish and
you should head off a stall everytime. I was taught NOT so much `stall
recovery` but RECOGNITION of a stall before it happens. Gliders pilots who
are thermalling in a gaggle of say 20 other gliders all banked at 30 degrees
or more 5 knots above the stall all in an area a few hundred yards across
will have his ears on the audio for the vario and his eyes outside, not
watching instruments. Glider pilots will just ease the back pressure
slightly when that `judder` occurs as they can`t afford to lose the height
which a power pilot can easily recover.
If you want to see some incredible glider flying see Youtube under `Nutter
at Kemble` (I think) there is film of a display at at Kemble Air Day with
the glider pilot doing rolls while still on aerotow. Also mirror flying with
the tug.Fantastic.
Cheers
Pat |
That's the way I learned it - referencing airspeed with an ASI for stall recognition/recovery is not a theory of fixed-wing flight that I'm familiar with or ever heard of being taught. Maintenance of angle of attack is the only method of stall avoidance and recovery that I've ever seen work in any airplane I've flown and it's what my instructors have always taught me as well.
Fortunately, in light aircraft like the Kolb, this isn't a difficult skill to acquire. In my old FSII, I never needed to use the ASI for anything other than making sure of V-speeds like Vne; in my titan I also rarely look at it again once I'm on downwind and configured for the approach. I'd say I stopped needing to use it at about 40 hours in the plane, about the same with Kolb.
Same thing in the glider I'm learning in right now, the ASI is used strictly for airspeed and never for stall recognition or recovery.
LS
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LS
Titan II SS |
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:56 am Post subject: stalls |
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, the ASI is used strictly for airspeed>>
Hi Lucien,
sounds as if we came up the same way. On the downwind leg of around my
10th glider flight the CFI threw his gloves onto a shelf thus covering the
ASI and the Altimeter with the words `you don`t need the instruments. Look
outside and listen to the plane.`
Pat
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jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: stalls |
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At 05:53 PM 5/14/08 +0100, you wrote:
| Quote: |
, the ASI is used strictly for airspeed>>
Hi Lucien,
sounds as if we came up the same way. On the downwind leg of around my
10th glider flight the CFI threw his gloves onto a shelf thus covering the
ASI and the Altimeter with the words `you don`t need the instruments. Look
outside and listen to the plane.`
Pat
|
Pat and Kolbers,
I flew gliders for several years, and what has been said here is true. But,
it is easier in gliders, in that, one does not have the distraction of
engine noise and vibration. They tend to mask what the plane is really
doing. In a glider, your lower cheeks will tell you pretty much what the
plane is doing and the sound of the wind flowing around the canopy tell you
your air speed. In powered flight, you still have your lower cheeks and if
your controls are light, feedback from the stick, but sound is pretty well
masked by headsets and/or noise protection and high background noise.
Just waiting for a fuel sipping, 35hp turboprop engine that weighs in at 70
pounds.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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russ(at)rkiphoto.com
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: stalls |
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Jack
While you're waiting, why not make it a fuel-sipping 70hp turboprop
engine that weighs 35 lbs?
You're right on in re letting the body tell you what's happening --
do not archive
On May 14, 2008, at 3:55 PM, Jack B. Hart wrote:
| Quote: |
<jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net>
At 05:53 PM 5/14/08 +0100, you wrote:
>
>
> , the ASI is used strictly for airspeed>>
>
> Hi Lucien,
> sounds as if we came up the same way. On the downwind leg of
> around my
> 10th glider flight the CFI threw his gloves onto a shelf thus
> covering the
> ASI and the Altimeter with the words `you don`t need the
> instruments. Look
> outside and listen to the plane.`
>
> Pat
Pat and Kolbers,
I flew gliders for several years, and what has been said here is
true. But,
it is easier in gliders, in that, one does not have the distraction of
engine noise and vibration. They tend to mask what the plane is
really
doing. In a glider, your lower cheeks will tell you pretty much
what the
plane is doing and the sound of the wind flowing around the canopy
tell you
your air speed. In powered flight, you still have your lower
cheeks and if
your controls are light, feedback from the stick, but sound is
pretty well
masked by headsets and/or noise protection and high background noise.
Just waiting for a fuel sipping, 35hp turboprop engine that weighs
in at 70
pounds.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
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