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wb2ssj(at)earthlink.net Guest
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:24 am Post subject: email |
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sure is quite arround here.
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 340 Location: UK
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pennington(at)gainusa.com Guest
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 4:13 am Post subject: email |
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No kidding! I was thinking the same thing.
Last week, I ask if there were any reliability issues with the Jabiru 3300. (I'm going to use the Jab in my Lightning). No response. I guess they are 100% reliable. Great!
Gary
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 340 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:49 am Post subject: email |
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Good to stimulate some discussion Tex + I too though Gary would get
plenty of info.
For 3300 reliability look to the Yahoo Jabiru engines list, but like
many things folk only tend to speak up when there are problems. We don't
say 'I've just had another trouble free flight what a wonderful engine,
I must tell everyone.
The do soon chirp up when they have a problem, hence the engine forums
are full of problems and if you review them alone you'll think the
Jabiru engine, including the 3300 is a pile of rubbish.
I've experience of both the 2200 and the 3300, they have their problems
slightly more so than any other engine I hear about (Rotax Lyc Cont).
The simplicity, economy and smoothness of the Jabiru engines sway me to
prefer them to the other options.
One comparison I would make is the 3300 seem to have less issues than
the 2200. Probably because they are generally further down the Jabiru
development calendar and maybe cause they are generally under less
strain. Whether that will apply into the future remains to be seen.
The very latest 3300 seems to have been sorted after Jabiru made a few
'adjustments' and I think you'll get a very fine engine! Certainly when
it comes to matching and engine to an airframe the lightning has it spot
on, I don't think there is an option that is even near close to being
worth using.
Regards, Clive
BTW, I now have the sound certificate exemption to go with the permit to
fly for my Esqual, next the insurance and then the UK CAA exemption all
timed for the good weather and my leave in the summer. Getting closer!!
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Colin K.
Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 157 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: email |
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Hi Tex,
A long silence and no activity from me!
I have been mulling over how I can better align the spar bolts/wing roots/spar box halves without many more trial and error attempts and consequently larger and larger holes for the spar box bolts in the wing roots each time. I know that you can flox & epoxy them at the end, but it's still better to keep them as small as possible.
I have not made much progress on that, but I have decided that it is a three man job to put the spar bolts in - one on each wing tip and one holding the bolts. Until now I have had someone on just one wing tip at a time, while I do the spar bolts. I have a set of longer bolts that I have filed to a point to help get them in and align everything. I have done this, but it is still not yet well enough aligned to fit the original bolts.
The builder of a flying Jabiru had a look at my Lightning. He had what I think is a very good suggestion for checking the wing angle of incidence which does not depend on the fuselage being level in the longitudinal or lateral axis, or having a level floor, or on placing an angle measurement gauge on exactly the same place on each wing with a jig.
Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges.
Do the same on the other wing and adjust the wing position until the measurement is the same.
Since the wing chord is the same, when you have set the vertical height difference the same, you have set the incidence angle the same on each wing.
What do you think?
Colin K.
OK
Lightning # 52 under construction.
http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
[quote]
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_________________ Colin K.
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pennington(at)gainusa.com Guest
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: email |
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How would you know you have the angle of incedence right on the first wing?
Gary
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007 Posts: 340 Location: UK
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:25 am Post subject: email |
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I did mine by lining the wings up with the 'Karman' which is Spanish for
'wing root shape' on the fuselage. After bolting it all up I went over
it like a rash with a digital spirit level and it was as near as I could
measure.
I wait with baited breath on whether it flies with asymmetrical flap but
live in hope.
One point though, my Jabiru has a tweaked flap to get it to fly
straight, the 'wings' are as level with each other as I can measure and
it seems to be the wing shape rather than the angle that is making it
fly lop sided. I have some eccentric bushes and one take I'm going to
have a tweak at the root to see if I can trim it out. These have been
used where the flaps trimming was too excessive.
Is there a concern with the lighting that the fuselage isn't a good
enough template?
CJ
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Colin K.
Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 157 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: email |
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This method ensures that the angle of incidence is the same for both wings, but it does not set it to any given value. In fact the manual gives no value.
I don't think you have any other reference than the wing root for the first wing.
Even with the spar bolts in place the wings can be rotated a few degrees until the angle of incidence bolts are put in place.
Colin K.
OK
Lightning # 52 under construction.
http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
[quote]
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_________________ Colin K.
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wb2ssj(at)earthlink.net Guest
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: email |
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IF you match the wing to the fuse your going to be real close.
[quote] ---
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wb2ssj(at)earthlink.net Guest
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Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:12 pm Post subject: email |
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Colin, I think your method is ok and the wings being the same is the finnally point to get to. I took two bolts and tappered them down to a point and aditional 50 thousands off down the entire lenght of the bolt, so they went in easier, you will have them on and off many times. Get to know your neighbors real well and keep the beer on ice. Tex
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pennington(at)gainusa.com Guest
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: email |
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Good morning.
Doesn't Lightning now have a template for setting wing angle of incidence?
Gary
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Colin K.
Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 157 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: email |
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A drawing with measurements and method are described in the manual. There is no template. I really don't know if that would help or not. It might.
Colin K.
OK
Lightning # 52 under construction.
http://www.mykitlog.com/cojaken
[quote]
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_________________ Colin K.
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: email |
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In a message dated 5/17/2008 10:47:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjk129(at)cox.net writes:
Quote: |
Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. |
Hi Colin,
I used a "water level" extensively when rigging my Pitts. The neat thing about it is that it can be any length - such as wing tip to wing tip. The method you describe above should work. However, I think the new incidence jig that Lightning has come up with will be simple and likely do a more precise job when using one of the new digital levels. But as I said, your "water level" method will work.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
[quote][b]
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:48 pm Post subject: email |
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In a message dated 5/17/2008 12:26:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, clive.james(at)uk.bp.com writes:
Quote: | Is there a concern with the lighting that the fuselage isn't a good
enough template?
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Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
[quote][b]
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N1BZRich(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: email |
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In a message dated 5/17/2008 12:26:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, clive.james(at)uk.bp.com writes:
Quote: | Is there a concern with the lighting that the fuselage isn't a good
enough template?
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Hi Clive,
The karmen on the two fuselage sides are probably pretty close in the original molds, but that may change over time with use. Plus the individual layups could vary, as could the way the two halves are glassed together. All of these processes leave some room for very slight miss-allignment of the karmen on each side. In the past, some Lightnings have come out with no roll when using the karmen and others have had a roll to correct. So it just depends. The new jig that SYI is using makes sure both wings are set to the same incidence. Adds one step to the process, but insures they are the same.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
[quote][b]
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info(at)flylightning.net Guest
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: email |
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I will work on getting a drawing out on the web site so it can be duplicated….we use it for setting the wings to match…we set one, than set the next one to match……
Nick Otterback
Arion Aircraft, LLC
From: owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-lightning-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N1BZRich(at)aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:45 PM
To: lightning-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: email
In a message dated 5/17/2008 10:47:16 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cjk129(at)cox.net writes:
Quote: |
Take a clear plastic tube with water in it. Line one wing up with the wing root. Line the water level at one end up with the leading edge where the wing meets the root. The tube goes under the wing and up to the trailing edge. Measure the distance from the water level at the other end, to the trailing edge. This measurement is the vertical height difference between the leading and trailing edges. |
Hi Colin,
I used a "water level" extensively when rigging my Pitts. The neat thing about it is that it can be any length - such as wing tip to wing tip. The method you describe above should work. However, I think the new incidence jig that Lightning has come up with will be simple and likely do a more precise job when using one of the new digital levels. But as I said, your "water level" method will work.
Blue Skies,
Buz
Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
Quote: | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Lightning-List | 0123456789
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14az(at)mysprocketmail.co Guest
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: email |
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I used a simple system that worked well on N8WN. I put a 6" 2x6 directly above the aft "C spar" of the wing then placed the digital level on the 2x6 with the forward point of the level on the wing on top of the main spar. I repeated this mid span and then on the tip of the wing. As I suspected I had some (minor) difference in twist between the two wings but not enough to matter. I set the incidence on the left and the wing matched the karmen perfect. On the right I had to place downward force on the leading edge to bring the wing into 0.2 degree of the left wing. I then had to add micro balloon mix to the top forward of the karmen about 1/4" to bring it into alignment with the wing. The bottom on the wing is not a perfect match but with years of experience with composites this is about normal. Not a big deal at all. What matters is the aircraft flew hands off without any roll at all. Johnny
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Colin K.
Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 157 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:41 am Post subject: email |
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Thanks Johnny. I will use your method as an extra check!
Colin K.
---- Johnny Thompson <14az(at)mysprocketmail.com> wrote:
[quote] I used a simple system that worked well on N8WN. I put a 6" 2x6 directly above the aft "C spar" of the wing then placed the digital level on the 2x6 with the forward point of the level on the wing on top of the main spar. I repeated this mid span and then on the tip of the wing. As I suspected I had some (minor) difference in twist between the two wings but not enough to matter. I set the incidence on the left and the wing matched the karmen perfect. On the right I had to place downward force on the leading edge to bring the wing into 0.2 degree of the left wing. I then had to add micro balloon mix to the top forward of the karmen about 1/4" to bring it into alignment with the wing. The bottom on the wing is not a perfect match but with years of experience with composites this is about normal. Not a big deal at all. What matters is the aircraft flew hands off without any roll at all. Johnny
---
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_________________ Colin K.
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