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n85ae
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403
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 Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 10:56 am Post subject: Manual's Annoyance, again |
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Grr. Not only are the 801 manual's poor at best, BUT I'm starting to discover
that the binders I got from Zenith are lacking entire sections which are on
the website.
The good thing is the website exists and I can look there when in doubt.
Now what would inspire somebody to design .063 6061 seat belt mounts
is beyond me, particularly with the grain oriented the wrong way. Nice thing I got a sheet of 4130 to make replacements from, and can tie to
the longerons with a few AN-3 bolts in addition to solids the rest of the
way.
I think Chris is an okay designer, but he sure applies his minimal
approach to a few more things than I like.
Got that out, back to building.
Jeff.
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cal.riggs
Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:06 am Post subject: Re: Manual's Annoyance, again |
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Actually the 0.063 6061 T6 seat belt mounts have been field tested on the 701, and they didn't fail. The material which the mount is attached will pull away before the mount bracket pulls through the bolt hole. In the field test, the 701 hit a tree with a wing and nose planted in the ground. The pilot is alive with no broken bones as a result of the airframe collapse at the seat belt mount. However, the lap belt pulled through the material at the tunnel. ZAC made a change to add a backing plate on the inside of the tunnel to strengthen the attachment. So, there is tested confirmation that the mount brackets themselves are fine at 0.063 6061.
You can do whatever you want to strengthen the seat belt mount but to say it is a poor design choice is unproven.
Regards,
Cal
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Manual's Annoyance, again |
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So print off the ones from the website, should they do it for you... I don't know. Maybe they have revisions that come after a printing cycle....Document control is a huge problem in design and mfg houses.
Kevin
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_________________
“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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n85ae
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: Re: Manual's Annoyance, again |
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You think so?
Here's a simple problem 6061 = 42,000 PSI tensile strength.
Strap less the material from the bolt = (approx) .063 x 1 x 42K =
2646 lb.
Ok rivets, I can't remember offhand but I think it is less than 8 A5's.
A5(255 lb's shear) x 8 = 2040lb.s
150(lb.s) x 20G = 3000
200(lb.s) x 20G = 4000
Ok, the load is probably distributed across three mount point, so ...
It's not so bad. But it certainly doesn't meet my definition of "strong"
It's a minimal design.
| cal.riggs wrote: | Actually the 0.063 6061 T6 seat belt mounts have been field tested on the 701, and they didn't fail. The material which the mount is attached will pull away before the mount bracket pulls through the bolt hole. In the field test, the 701 hit a tree with a wing and nose planted in the ground. The pilot is alive with no broken bones as a result of the airframe collapse at the seat belt mount. However, the lap belt pulled through the material at the tunnel. ZAC made a change to add a backing plate on the inside of the tunnel to strengthen the attachment. So, there is tested confirmation that the mount brackets themselves are fine at 0.063 6061.
You can do whatever you want to strengthen the seat belt mount but to say it is a poor design choice is unproven.
Regards,
Cal |
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