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Fuel Costs

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Rollrate(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:04 pm Post subject: Fuel Costs

Where is fuel going to end up?  At 17 gallons an hour and possibly  $10. per gallon fuel, the cost of ownership sadly may ground or keep flying to a  minimum for some owners and may flood the market with Yaks.  Looks  like auto fuel burning Nanchangs have the upper hand in this realm  although ethanol is an issue.  Hopefully ethanol will go away leaving  the auto fuel option for CJ pilots. Corn belongs on your plate, not in your  tank..

  

 Any insight concerning the fuel situation? I worry about the  value of my plane dropping and would appreciate any comments.

  

 Pete

  

  





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  [quote][b]

cjpilot710(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:45 am Post subject: Fuel Costs

In a message dated 5/20/2008 12:05:40 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  Rollrate(at)aol.com writes:

  

 Yep.  Don't vote for Obama or Hillary.  And don't vote for any  democrat (or republican) who isn't for increasing drilling, adding new  refineries, and adding a nuclear power plant (or two) to every state.   

  

 Ladies and Gentlemen I see the US as entering  a real inflationary  period.  Particularly with the party make up of the house and  senate.  The hippy generation is now voting the "givememinenow" mind  set.  Our founding fathers made one mistake, they didn't put term limits on  the house or senate. For the next eight years (even if McCain is elected) I  don't see the economy getting any better than it is right this minute.   

  

 I don't see the EPA being kick out or rained in by any of those running, so  you can expect fuel situation not to improve one Iota.  Plus we've let  every level of government get its fingers into our pockets, (local taxes,  'flowage fees', etc. )  The list is too long. 

  

 Now look!  You've got me started!  And this list is not the place  people like to discuss politics.  But our flying is very much "controlled"  by politics.  Every facet of it.  And yet I come here to get away  from politics.  

  

 Yes I see prices getting very high for aviation fuel but still  available.  I see a lot of airplanes getting parked and their valve going  down.  That includes mine.

 My flying days are nearly over.  I do not envy you younger guys and  gals whose passion for flying like mine, may very well get derailed. 

  

 This is the last you'll hear from me on this subject.  Its too God  damned depressing. 

  

 Jim "Pappy" Goolsby

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		          Where is fuel going to end up?  At 17 gallons an hour and possibly    $10. per gallon fuel, the cost of ownership sadly may ground or keep flying to    a minimum for some owners and may flood the market with Yaks.  Looks    like auto fuel burning Nanchangs have the upper hand in this realm    although ethanol is an issue.  Hopefully ethanol will go away    leaving the auto fuel option for CJ pilots. Corn belongs on your plate, not in    your tank..

    

   Any insight concerning the fuel situation? I worry about    the value of my plane dropping and would appreciate any comments.

    

   Pete

    

    



 	  Quote: 	
		   	
	


 

  



Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Fuel Costs

Take a look/listen to this.  It was on AVWEB about  2 or so weeks ago.  It may be our only hope for the future.

 Dennis

  

 http://www.avweb.com/podcast/podcast/AudioPodcast_SwiftEnterprises_SyntheticFuel_JohnZiulkowski_197843-1.html

 [quote]   ---

Mozam

Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 85

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:57 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Costs

[quote="Rollrate(at)aol.com"]  Looks  like auto fuel burning Nanchangs have the upper hand in this realm  although ethanol is an issue.  Hopefully ethanol will go away leaving  the auto fuel option for CJ pilots. Corn belongs on your plate, not in your  tank..

  

 Any insight concerning the fuel situation? I worry about the  value of my plane dropping and would appreciate any comments.

  

 Pete

quote]



Hi Pete,



I agree decreasing values is a real possibility as rising fuel prices cause a glut of planes on the market.  And it appears that it is, or very soon will be, impossible to buy auto gas without some amount of ethanol in it.  No plane owners are gonna be able to find auto gas that they can use.



Hopefully 100LL's replacement will arrive sooner, rather than later.



-Steve

petervs(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 12:18 pm Post subject: Fuel Costs

Seems to me the Ethanol problem is an easy one to beat. According to

previous emails you check for ethanol by adding water to the fuel shake up

and the ethanol combines with the water and comes out of the fuel. So it

would seem that all you need to do is by auto gas, chuck in some water shake

it up and then separate the water from the auto gas.



Could it be that easy? Merely a 10% loss of fuel quantity...



Pete



--

CJcanuck

Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 39

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Costs

Being Canadian I will refrain from commenting on the political scene in the United States (unless someone wishes to discuss NAFTA) but I do have a few thoughts on fuel prices.



Do I think the current prices are here to stay?  Yes, I do.  However, both Europe, Canada and the Antipodians have been putting up with USD5.00+ per gallon for many years and both have active, if not as prolific, GA communities.



I see parallel's with the energy crisis of '79.  The daily consumption rate for the United States has only recently matched the daily consumption rate of those days (see Energy Information Agency info for detail), and that's with a much larger population.  The rationalization of daily oil use (namely, cars) had a tremendous effect back then and I feel it needs to be revisited.  Now, if the current prices drive all the H2's and sparklingly clean F350's off the road then I'm all for it.  Many of my neighbours have large ski boats with 350HP+ motors that they go fishing with for Lord's sake.. what are they fishing, submarines??



I rationalize my CJ this way:



My car (Toyota Matrix) driven around 35,000km (22,000miles) per year = ~800 gallons. (~30miles per gallon)

25hours of CJ (at)14gal per hour = 350gallons.

Total = 1150gallons



vs



Toyota 4-Runner (common larger vehicle I see) driven same distance = ~1300gallons (~17miles per gallon)



vs



Hummer H2 (lots on the road in Anchorage) for same distance = ~2000gallons (~11gallons per mile)



Simply put America, park those ridiculously big cars (H2's, F350's), buy a Ford Focus/Honda Civic/Motorbike for your daily commute (or better yet, take mass transit) and put the oil where it's needed most, in the tanks of our CJ's/Yak's!!!



Just my 2 (CDN) cents worth.



Mike

fish(at)aviation-tech.com
Guest

Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Fuel Costs

Group,



I agree fuel prices are probably here to stay and if we

would like to continue flying, we will need to explore other

methods. Some ideas would be a flying club or fractional

ownership. (Berry, yes I like your idea, currently I can not

afford the buy in)



Using Mike's breakdown, flying 25 hrs per year (2.08 hrs a

month). Lets assume there are 12 hours of daylight flying

per day (year round average). The aircraft is parked for 350

Hrs of day flying per month, where the aircraft is available

for someone else to fly. 



A more realestic figure would be to say there are 4 weekends

in a month (24 day hrs X 4 weekends= 96 flying hrs available

per month). So with 4 partners in an aircraft, that leaves

one weekend a month for each to fly the aircraft. Weekends

could be drawn by lotto(aircraft avail wed - tue), giving

everyone an even chance of getting the aircraft on a weekend

they want. If you did not get the weekend you want, you

could then attempt to trade with the others.



This would drop the cost for the individual, and poss allow

more then 2 flight hrs per month. Increasing the utilization

factor of the aircraft, and dropping cost per flight hour.



With a club, you could add aditional aircraft (cross

country, STOL, instrument trainer, Multi Eng, Jet, Ect),

adding additional value to being a member.



Anyone want to purchase a 1/4 to 1/2 shares of a Yak-52?

have aircraft (Cessna, Piper, Twin, Jet, Ect) to include in

a club? 



Fly Safe

John Fischer

Yak-52, N213YA

BT-13, Project

L-5, project

PT-19, Project

----- Original Message Follows -----

From: "CJcanuck" <m_kirk69(at)hotmail.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Fuel Costs

Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:36:50 -0700



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <m_kirk69(at)hotmail.com>

 

 Being Canadian I will refrain from commenting on the

 political scene in the United States (unless someone

 wishes to discuss NAFTA) but I do have a few thoughts on

 fuel prices.

 

 Do I think the current prices are here to stay?  Yes, I

 do.  However, both Europe, Canada and the Antipodians have

 been putting up with USD5.00+ per gallon for many years

 and both have active, if not as prolific, GA communities.

 

 I see parallel's with the energy crisis of '79.  The daily

 consumption rate for the United States has only recently

 matched the daily consumption rate of those days (see

 Energy Information Agency info for detail), and that's

 with a much larger population.  The rationalization of

 daily oil use (namely, cars) had a tremendous effect back

 then and I feel it needs to be revisited.  Now, if the

 current prices drive all the H2's and sparklingly clean

 F350's off the road then I'm all for it.  Many of my

 neighbours have large ski boats with 350HP+ motors that

 they go fishing with for Lord's sake.. what are they

 fishing, submarines??

 

 I rationalize my CJ this way:

 

 My car (Toyota Matrix) driven around 35,000km

 (22,000miles) per year = ~800 gallons. (~30miles per

 gallon) 25hours of CJ (at)14gal per hour = 350gallons.

 Total = 1150gallons

 

 vs

 

 Toyota 4-Runner (common larger vehicle I see) driven same

 distance = ~1300gallons (~17miles per gallon)

 

 vs

 

 Hummer H2 (lots on the road in Anchorage) for same

 distance = ~2000gallons (~11gallons per mile)

 

 Simply put America, park those ridiculously big cars (H2's

 , F350's), buy a Ford Focus/Honda Civic/Motorbike for your

 daily commute (or better yet, take mass transit) and put

 the oil where it's needed most, in the tanks of our

 CJ's/Yak's!!!

 

 Just my 2 (CDN) cents worth.

 

 Mike

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=184280#184280

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ====

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:07 am Post subject: Fuel Costs

100LL is already US$11 per US Gallon-not  Imperial -in many parts of the UK!!

 Richard

  

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5  3LW

United Kingdom

  

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544  340129

www.russianaeros.com



 [quote]   ---

l39parts(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 7:26 am Post subject: Fuel Costs

11 USD per gallon = 440 USD per barrel.  The spot price for crude is $130.  Where does the rest go in the U.K.? 

 [quote]  From: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Fuel Costs

Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:04:30 +0100



     100LL is already US$11 per US Gallon-not Imperial -in many parts of the UK!!

 Richard

  

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

United Kingdom

  

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0) 1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com



 [quote] ---

richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest

Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Fuel Costs

I believe about 65% is in tax.I'm not  in the oil business,but I assume the rest is shipping; refining; transport;  retailing etc.

 Our automotive fuel is not far behind  at 9 US$ per US Gallon!!

 Richard

  

 Richard Goode Aerobatics

Rhodds  Farm

Lyonshall

Hereford

HR5 3LW

United Kingdom

  

 Tel:   +44 (0) 1544 340120

Fax:  +44 (0)  1544 340129

www.russianaeros.com



 [quote]   ---

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