Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - To cut or not to cut?

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

To cut or not to cut?
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

I have an original Firestar TTAF 905 hrs. It's fat 388 lbs. as am I  215 lbs. It is the 5 rib wing sporting a 503 on top.  I've had the plane for 40 hours of it's flight time. I don't know about how it was flown in the past except an entry in the logbook that states "did first loop today".



I fly conservatively but as someone mentioned, you never know when you are going to hit turbulence.  Last summer I banged my head on the canopy a few times and other times it felt like the bottom had fallen out followed by an abrupt stop. Other times I had been doing something else GPS, radio, etc and when I looked up I was going 80 and once I know I saw 90.  So, no matter how gentle we try to fly there are going to be times when the plane gets stressed.



My question is should I strip the covering off the wing and brace the leading edge and perform a full inspection or should I continue to fly and not worry about it?



The condition of the covering and plane is very good.  Looks like this plane has been taken care of at least as far as appearances go. But is this an accident waiting to happen?  What would you do? Thanks!

John Murr

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: To cut or not to cut?

That is a LOT of hours on that plane JDM...   If you are good at covering and building, and you could easily do the job, I personally would take the time to get in the wing and do it, especially given the history of someone doing loops in that plane.    I would reinforce both the leading and trailing edges of the ribs.  If they look fatigued, I would even replace them.   That would really really worry me, because the "did FIRST loop today" entry implies many more followed     The more I think about the history and the weight you are flying at, the more I dont like it....



If you do not have the ability and shop to do that type of work that makes the choice much harder.  Maybe someone here with more experience than I will help you out there.



One thing I definately would recommend is getting a BRS (ballistic chute).   That gives you a really good backup and can save your life if the worst does happen.   



Best of luck with that one, I really hope someone can give you some better advice than I can on this.



Michael A. Bigelow

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Last edited by JetPilot on Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:14 pm; edited 3 times in total

Frcole(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

5 Ribs vs 7 !. The weight of that Firestar is just about what my Firestar 11 

is. The 7 rib vs 5 uses the same primary structure in that the spar will take 

the bending moment. The problem is distributing the air load thru the fabric 

into the ribs and then into the spar. I think the probable failure would be 

pulling the fabric from the rib caps and not folding the wing. Its still a 

terminal failure though, best solution would be to rebuild the wing with more ribs.

Dick C

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 4:10 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

I guess I'm just an old fuddy duddy but my first line of defence, and insurance, would be the installation of a BRS. A damaged plane in our catagorys can't do much damage to anything on the ground descending under a chute.

  Ray ... UltraStar

  Tenn.

  do not archive 



John Murr <jdm(at)wideworld.net> wrote:

  



I have an original Firestar TTAF 905 hrs. It's fat 388 lbs. as am I 215 lbs. It is the 5 rib wing sporting a 503 on top. I've had the plane for 40 hours of it's flight time. I don't know about how it was flown in the past except an entry in the logbook that states "did first loop today".



I fly conservatively but as someone mentioned, you never know when you are going to hit turbulence. Last summer I banged my head on the canopy a few times and other times it felt like the bottom had fallen out followed by an abrupt stop. Other times I had been doing something else GPS, radio, etc and when I looked up I was going 80 and once I know I saw 90. So, no matter how gentle we try to fly there are going to be times when the plane gets stressed.



My question is should I strip the covering off the wing and brace the leading edge and perform a full inspection or should I continue to fly and not worry about it?



The condition of the covering and plane is very good. Looks like this plane has been taken care of at least as far as appearances go. But is this an accident waiting to happen? What would you do? Thanks!

John Murr





		

---------------------------------

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail  makes sharing a breeze.

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

flht99reh(at)netzero.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:17 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

John, I love your candidness. My Firstar is in the same weight category and

I weigh about 15 pounds more than you, as did my predecessor. But hitting

your head on the canopy, may I suggest tightening your seatbelt! Ha, HA! As

far as the feeling of the bottom falling out, I might suggest apiece of 3/8"

thick mild steel plate along the base of the frame. Of course the plane may

have difficulty getting off in less than 500 feet but when you hit the

ground you will make a dent in the earth that they will know you were there!

Ha! "Logbook entry of "first loop today". Now that one really scares me!

John Houck, have you ever done intentional loops? To answer your question, I

really don't know. I do know that it is a considerable amount of work. My

life in it? Yours hours flying it?  You would be the best judge of your

values. How old is the plane? It might be time anyway. And I know I would be

a bit more comfortable knowing for sure what's under the rapping paper.



Ohio Ralph



--

edchmiel(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Guys,



        Seems to be too much 'TLAR' (that looks about right) engineering and 

conjecture going on here.  Homer built a very sturdy bird to start with! 

All the chicken littles (with no design experience!) should perhaps refrain 

from expounding on alterations.  As pointed out in an earlier post, going 

from a 5-rib to a 7-rib involves more than just sliding on a couple ribs - a 

new spar would be in order.  Where's the failure data that was mentioned 

earlier, which started all this?



Ed in JXN

MkII/503

Do not archive.

---

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Ed, I'm with you, where's the data?...  This thread has actually got me a

little scared to go fly my new (to me) airplane...



I bought a Kolb for several reasons and one of the most important is the

reputed strength...  I'm starting to get a little disenchanted with it and I

haven't even flown it yet...



If there are documented Firestar airframe failures, please, please guide me

to the reports...  The life I save may be my own...  If it's just hearsay,

please say so and I'll take it as such...



Thanx...



David

On 3/2/06, Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 

 >



 Guys,



        Seems to be too much 'TLAR' (that looks about right) engineering

 and

 conjecture going on here.  Homer built a very sturdy bird to start with!

 All the chicken littles (with no design experience!) should perhaps

 refrain

 from expounding on alterations.  As pointed out in an earlier post, going

 from a 5-rib to a 7-rib involves more than just sliding on a couple ribs -

 a

 new spar would be in order.  Where's the failure data that was mentioned

 earlier, which started all this?



 Ed in JXN

 MkII/503

 Do not archive.




	




--

=F4=BF=F4  "I started with nothing...  And I still have most of it left!"...

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

Frcole(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Just a quick question, why a new spar ? A few extra holes, so long as they 

are plugged at the old rib locations would make no difference. Did Homer change 

the tube spar thickness?

DickC

jdm(at)wideworld.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:47 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

John Hauck knows of two.  His and a friend of his.  Perhaps her could expand 

exactly what failed in each case and should we be worried?



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Ed, I'm with you, where's the data?...  This thread has actually got me a

 little scared to go fly my new (to me) airplane...



 I bought a Kolb for several reasons and one of the most important is the

 reputed strength...  I'm starting to get a little disenchanted with it and 

 I

 haven't even flown it yet...



 If there are documented Firestar airframe failures, please, please guide 

 me

 to the reports...  The life I save may be my own...  If it's just hearsay,

 please say so and I'll take it as such...



 Thanx...

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

| 

|

| John Hauck knows of two.  His and a friend of his.  Perhaps her 

could expand

| exactly what failed in each case and should we be worried?



My accident is well documented in the Kolb List Archives.  Do a search 

in the Kolb Archives on "leading edge failure".  Then scroll down to 

around 4 March 2004.  There are several posts reference wings there.



john h

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Possum

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Georgia

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:47 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

At 10:41 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

| John Hauck knows of two.  His and a friend of his.  Perhaps her

could expand

| exactly what failed in each case and should we be worried?

My accident is well documented in the Kolb List Archives.  Do a search

in the Kolb Archives on "leading edge failure".  Then scroll down to

around 4 March 2004.  There are several posts reference wings there.

john h

-----------------

 >Yes, a gentleman by the name of Aubrey Radford, old Air America pilot

 >from VN days installed spades on his original Firestar.  Aubrey flew

 >hard, very similar to John Hauck, back in those days.  Two months

 >after I pulled the wings off my original Firestar, Aubrey did the same

 >thing with his Firestar.  He got a full canopy, but the kevlar bridal

 >seperated when it came into contact with the sharp edge of the engine

 >mount.  Unfortunately, it was his last flight.  Those two events

 >happened 15 years ago.  Mine in March and Aubrey's in May.  BTW  My

 >parachute worked.

He did have the spades on his plane, but later we cut down the ailerons and

archived the same or better results.

That's right about the crash - except Aubrey had a "Second Chance"  chute

with a "nylon"

bridal that separated at about 100+ mph on an over loaded KXP  going

straight down after doing several aerobic maneuvers - loops and

hammerheads - at an air show.

The front leading edge folded back as far as we could tell - the out of

column sort of thing.

I'm almost sure it was a 500lb max chute system. Aubrey was about 1/2 max

himself.

He hit so hard that the engine block was flattened. Not to be too graphic

.........................you know the rest.  We've had two of these 

so far - so

be careful out there you guys. Aubrey flew very hard.

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Damn!...



On 3/2/06, possums <possums(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 At 10:41 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:

 >

 >| John Hauck knows of two.  His and a friend of his.  Perhaps her

 >could expand

 >| exactly what failed in each case and should we be worried?

 >

 >My accident is well documented in the Kolb List Archives.  Do a search

 >in the Kolb Archives on "leading edge failure".  Then scroll down to

 >around 4 March 2004.  There are several posts reference wings there.

 >

 >john h

 -----------------



 >Yes, a gentleman by the name of Aubrey Radford, old Air America pilot

 >from VN days installed spades on his original Firestar.  Aubrey flew

 >hard, very similar to John Hauck, back in those days.  Two months

 >after I pulled the wings off my original Firestar, Aubrey did the same

 >thing with his Firestar.  He got a full canopy, but the kevlar bridal

 >seperated when it came into contact with the sharp edge of the engine

 >mount.  Unfortunately, it was his last flight.  Those two events

 >happened 15 years ago.  Mine in March and Aubrey's in May.  BTW  My

 >parachute worked.

 He did have the spades on his plane, but later we cut down the ailerons

 and

 archived the same or better results.

 That's right about the crash - except Aubrey had a "Second Chance"  chute

 with a "nylon"

 bridal that separated at about 100+ mph on an over loaded KXP  going

 straight down after doing several aerobic maneuvers - loops and

 hammerheads - at an air show.

 The front leading edge folded back as far as we could tell - the out of

 column sort of thing.

 I'm almost sure it was a 500lb max chute system. Aubrey was about 1/2 max

 himself.

 He hit so hard that the engine block was flattened. Not to be too graphic

 ..........................you know the rest.  We've had two of these

 so far - so

 be careful out there you guys. Aubrey flew very hard.


	




do not archive

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

Denny Rowe

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Leechburg, PA

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:23 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

---

edchmiel(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Well said, Denny!



---

edchmiel(at)mindspring.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:15 pm Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Hi Dick,



        I suppose it's not required, but I'd always wonder about any holes 

in the spar.  If my bird had the fabric off and I felt the need to add the 

ribs, the spar change would make me sleep better.  But I'm no aerodynamic 

engineer, either!



Ed in JXN

MkII/503

Do not archive.

---

rsanoa

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 71
Location: Bell Buckle,TN

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

My unsolicited advice is ----- if you want to "fly hard" and do acrobatics, buy an aircraft that is designed for it. Killing one's self in a standard category plane, flying outside it's limits, puts a bad  undeserved name on the aircraft.

  Ray

  do not archive



Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> wrote: 

  



Well said, Denny!



---

_________________
Ray S.Anderson

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Ray and Denny...



Thanx for the reassuring words of encouragement...



David



do not archive

On 3/3/06, ray anderson <rsanoa(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote]

 



 My unsolicited advice is ----- if you want to "fly hard" and do

 acrobatics, buy an aircraft that is designed for it. Killing one's self in a

 standard category plane, flying outside it's limits, puts a bad  undeserved

 name on the aircraft.

 Ray

 do not archive



 Ed Chmielewski <edchmiel(at)mindspring.com> wrote:

 



 Well said, Denny!



 ---

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

John M & all,

Here's my take and 2 cents on your dilemma.  One, the plane has 

already 900 plus hours - I don't feel that is a negative, more of a 

plus in that it has demonstrated it can handle the normal loads 

placed upon it.  Next, the two incidences brought up of having wing 

failures, it was established both were repeatedly flown hard doing 

aerobatics which equates to higher speeds and loads.  Being trained 

in aerobatics and having owned an aerobatic trainer aircraft, stress 

will be induced upon the airframe from increased airspeeds and doing 

abrupt maneuvers.  Most basic maneuvers like loops, barrel or aileron 

rolls if done properly will not place any undo amount of stress upon 

the airframe (stay away from tail slides, hammer head stalls which 

can turn into tail slides or whip stalls, and snap rolls), however do 

them wrong followed by the use of improper recovery techniques can 

induce significant loads upon the airframe.  Doing airshow type 

aerobatics can induce excessive loads beyond the limits of the 

airframe which it was never intended to withstand.



You may want to search the archives using search keys of 5 rib and 

second key as 7 rib.  There is a case similar to yours in which the 

party recites his conversation after contacting the factory for there 

opinion.  Reference  message dated 16 Apr 2002 by Ken Korenek.



Now to the real issue, your flying heavy with a 503.  The weight and 

503, and allowing a back seat passenger  were the reason the company 

went to the 7 rib wing structure.  I am not an engineer but based 

upon the comments in that message referenced above I think your fine 

as long as you keep the gross weight under 800#.  I just wouldn't go 

out do any aerobatics, fly it like a Cessna 150.



Having built a Kolb FireFly and a CGS Hawk and comparing their wing 

structures, I don't think you have any problem.  Unlike the Kolb the 

Hawk wing does not use any ribs, instead it uses the forward spar as 

its leading edge with shape forming battens that slide into sewn in 

pockets between the front and rear (tube) spars to form the curved 

shape of the wings upper surface.  The bottom surface uses no ribs or 

battens relaying on the fabric tension alone between the front and 

rear.  (The Hawk wing also has the typical wing diagonal 

strengthening members.)  The Hawk wing is strong and has proven 

itself over time.  I don't feel the FireStar wing is any weaker.



If you  were to rework the wing to the 7 rib configuration based upon 

comments from the designer of the Hawk regarding their spar, if you 

place a solid aluminum rivet into the vacated rivet holes of the 

prior rib locations, that should prevent compression failure of the 

spar since the holes are filled.  Your other option would be 

replacing the spar's.  Myself after reviewing the prior post and 

comparing the aircraft, I would leave it alone and just fly 

it.  Don't carry any passenger and don't fly airshow aerobatics.  If 

your still concerned you might consider buying and installing a BRS, 

it would probably be about the same cost you would incur to rebuild 

and recover the wings, much less work.  It would add another 20-24#.



My conclusion fly it as it is, stay within the gross weight limit of 

800# as suggested in the message I referenced above, don't do any 

aerobatics, and stay within the never exceed speed, you should be 

fine with every day flying, thermals included.

jerb

At 11:21 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:

[quote]

---

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

Thanx Jerb...

Now I don't have to contact Barnstormers to place an ad...

Thanx again...

David

do not archive

On 3/3/06, jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> wrote:

[quote]

 John M & all,

 Here's my take and 2 cents on your dilemma.  One, the plane has

 already 900 plus hours - I don't feel that is a negative, more of a

 plus in that it has demonstrated it can handle the normal loads

 placed upon it.  Next, the two incidences brought up of having wing

 failures, it was established both were repeatedly flown hard doing

 aerobatics which equates to higher speeds and loads.  Being trained

 in aerobatics and having owned an aerobatic trainer aircraft, stress

 will be induced upon the airframe from increased airspeeds and doing

 abrupt maneuvers.  Most basic maneuvers like loops, barrel or aileron

 rolls if done properly will not place any undo amount of stress upon

 the airframe (stay away from tail slides, hammer head stalls which

 can turn into tail slides or whip stalls, and snap rolls), however do

 them wrong followed by the use of improper recovery techniques can

 induce significant loads upon the airframe.  Doing airshow type

 aerobatics can induce excessive loads beyond the limits of the

 airframe which it was never intended to withstand.

 You may want to search the archives using search keys of 5 rib and

 second key as 7 rib.  There is a case similar to yours in which the

 party recites his conversation after contacting the factory for there

 opinion.  Reference  message dated 16 Apr 2002 by Ken Korenek.

 Now to the real issue, your flying heavy with a 503.  The weight and

 503, and allowing a back seat passenger  were the reason the company

 went to the 7 rib wing structure.  I am not an engineer but based

 upon the comments in that message referenced above I think your fine

 as long as you keep the gross weight under 800#.  I just wouldn't go

 out do any aerobatics, fly it like a Cessna 150.

 Having built a Kolb FireFly and a CGS Hawk and comparing their wing

 structures, I don't think you have any problem.  Unlike the Kolb the

 Hawk wing does not use any ribs, instead it uses the forward spar as

 its leading edge with shape forming battens that slide into sewn in

 pockets between the front and rear (tube) spars to form the curved

 shape of the wings upper surface.  The bottom surface uses no ribs or

 battens relaying on the fabric tension alone between the front and

 rear.  (The Hawk wing also has the typical wing diagonal

 strengthening members.)  The Hawk wing is strong and has proven

 itself over time.  I don't feel the FireStar wing is any weaker.

 If you  were to rework the wing to the 7 rib configuration based upon

 comments from the designer of the Hawk regarding their spar, if you

 place a solid aluminum rivet into the vacated rivet holes of the

 prior rib locations, that should prevent compression failure of the

 spar since the holes are filled.  Your other option would be

 replacing the spar's.  Myself after reviewing the prior post and

 comparing the aircraft, I would leave it alone and just fly

 it.  Don't carry any passenger and don't fly airshow aerobatics.  If

 your still concerned you might consider buying and installing a BRS,

 it would probably be about the same cost you would incur to rebuild

 and recover the wings, much less work.  It would add another 20-24#.

 My conclusion fly it as it is, stay within the gross weight limit of

 800# as suggested in the message I referenced above, don't do any

 aerobatics, and stay within the never exceed speed, you should be

 fine with every day flying, thermals included.

 jerb

 At 11:21 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:

 >

 >

 >

 >---

_________________
ô¿ô

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

ul15rhb(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: To cut or not to cut?

-- jerb <ulflyer(at)verizon.net> wrote:




"My conclusion fly it as it is, stay within the gross weight limit of 

800# as suggested in the message I referenced above, don't do any 

aerobatics, and stay within the never exceed speed, you should be 

fine with every day flying, thermals included.

jerb"



Jerb and all,

The Original 5-rib wing Firestar had a gross weight limit of 535 lbs.



Ralph

Original Firestar

19 years flying it



John M & all,

Here's my take and 2 cents on your dilemma.  One, the plane has 

already 900 plus hours - I don't feel that is a negative, more of a 

plus in that it has demonstrated it can handle the normal loads 

placed upon it.  Next, the two incidences brought up of having wing 

failures, it was established both were repeatedly flown hard doing 

aerobatics which equates to higher speeds and loads.  Being trained 

in aerobatics and having owned an aerobatic trainer aircraft, stress 

will be induced upon the airframe from increased airspeeds and doing 

abrupt maneuvers.  Most basic maneuvers like loops, barrel or aileron 

rolls if done properly will not place any undo amount of stress upon 

the airframe (stay away from tail slides, hammer head stalls which 

can turn into tail slides or whip stalls, and snap rolls), however do 

them wrong followed by the use of improper recovery techniques can 

induce significant loads upon the airframe.  Doing airshow type 

aerobatics can induce excessive loads beyond the limits of the 

airframe which it was never intended to withstand.



You may want to search the archives using search keys of 5 rib and 

second key as 7 rib.  There is a case similar to yours in which the 

party recites his conversation after contacting the factory for there 

opinion.  Reference  message dated 16 Apr 2002 by Ken Korenek.



Now to the real issue, your flying heavy with a 503.  The weight and 

503, and allowing a back seat passenger  were the reason the company 

went to the 7 rib wing structure.  I am not an engineer but based 

upon the comments in that message referenced above I think your fine 

as long as you keep the gross weight under 800#.  I just wouldn't go 

out do any aerobatics, fly it like a Cessna 150.



Having built a Kolb FireFly and a CGS Hawk and comparing their wing 

structures, I don't think you have any problem.  Unlike the Kolb the 

Hawk wing does not use any ribs, instead it uses the forward spar as 

its leading edge with shape forming battens that slide into sewn in 

pockets between the front and rear (tube) spars to form the curved 

shape of the wings upper surface.  The bottom surface uses no ribs or 

battens relaying on the fabric tension alone between the front and 

rear.  (The Hawk wing also has the typical wing diagonal 

strengthening members.)  The Hawk wing is strong and has proven 

itself over time.  I don't feel the FireStar wing is any weaker.



If you  were to rework the wing to the 7 rib configuration based upon 

comments from the designer of the Hawk regarding their spar, if you 

place a solid aluminum rivet into the vacated rivet holes of the 

prior rib locations, that should prevent compression failure of the 

spar since the holes are filled.  Your other option would be 

replacing the spar's.  Myself after reviewing the prior post and 

comparing the aircraft, I would leave it alone and just fly 

it.  Don't carry any passenger and don't fly airshow aerobatics.  If 

your still concerned you might consider buying and installing a BRS, 

it would probably be about the same cost you would incur to rebuild 

and recover the wings, much less work.  It would add another 20-24#.



My conclusion fly it as it is, stay within the gross weight limit of 

800# as suggested in the message I referenced above, don't do any 

aerobatics, and stay within the never exceed speed, you should be 

fine with every day flying, thermals included.

jerb

At 11:21 PM 3/2/2006, you wrote:

[quote]

---

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4 Next
Page 1 of 4

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum