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Faraday Cage

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mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: Faraday Cage

I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage in the structure.  In other words it must be surrounded with a conductive material in the skin.  This is to conduct static electricity.  

   

Does anyone know anything about this?? Or is it another myth?  If there are any regulations, can you please point me to them.  

   

Thanks for your input.  

   

Roger  

       [quote][b]

bobf(at)feldtman.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: Faraday Cage

myth



bobf

W5RF



On 5/26/08, ROGER &  JEAN CURTIS <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net (mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

  

I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage in the structure.  In other words it must be surrounded with a conductive material in the skin.  This is to conduct static electricity. 

 

Does anyone know anything about this?? Or is it another myth?  If there are any regulations, can you please point me to them. 

 

Thanks for your input. 

 

Roger  --> ht/forums.matronics.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLiution" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,==  [/b] 	
 

[b]

henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: Faraday Cage

Roger,



I am willing to bet that you did NOT hear that from an FAA guy.  I have never read that in the FARs.  Just because I've never read it, though, doesn't mean it doesn't exist; however, I 've never heard it before, and there are many aircraft manufacturers out there like Cirrus, Diamond, etc. who have never it either.  My experimental airplane is a composite fiberglass/foam airplane, and it's never heard of it.  I will be very surprised if anyone on this email list will be able to quote a FAR that says so.



Sounds like a good myth in the making to me.



Henador Titzof



----- Original  Message ----

From: ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:33:19 AM

Subject: Faraday Cage



      

 

 

I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage in the structure.  In other words it must be surrounded with a conductive material in the skin.  This is to conduct static electricity.

 

Does anyone know anything about this?? Or is it another myth?  If there are any regulations, can you please point me to them.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Roger

[quote][b]

henador_titzoff(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: Faraday Cage

Roger,



I am willing to bet that you did NOT hear that from an FAA guy.  I have never read that in the FARs.  Just because I've never read it, though, doesn't mean it doesn't exist; however, I 've never heard it before, and there are many aircraft manufacturers out there like Cirrus, Diamond, etc. who have never it either.  My experimental airplane is a composite fiberglass/foam airplane, and it's never heard of it.  I will be very surprised if anyone on this email list will be able to quote a FAR that says so.



Sounds like a good myth in the making to me.



Henador Titzof



----- Original  Message ----

From: ROGER & JEAN CURTIS <mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 8:33:19 AM

Subject: Faraday Cage



      

 

 

I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage in the structure.  In other words it must be surrounded with a conductive material in the skin.  This is to conduct static electricity.

 

Does anyone know anything about this?? Or is it another myth?  If there are any regulations, can you please point me to them.

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Roger

[quote][b]

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: Faraday Cage

Henador,  

   

I am not surprised!!  I had never heard of this until a couple of days ago, and I have been around for quite some time  

   

Roger    

   

   

     

Roger,

 

 I am willing to bet that you did NOT hear that from an FAA guy.  I have never read that in the FARs.  Just because I've never read it, though, doesn't mean it doesn't exist; however, I 've never heard it before, and there are many aircraft manufacturers out there like Cirrus, Diamond, etc. who have never it either.  My experimental airplane is a composite fiberglass/foam airplane, and it's never heard of it.  I will be very surprised if anyone on this email list will be able to quote a FAR that says so.

 

 Sounds like a good myth in the making to me.

 

 Henador Titzof    

     

----- Original Message ----    

   

   

I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage in the structure.  In other words it must be surrounded with a conductive material in the skin.  This is to conduct static electricity.  

   

Does anyone know anything about this?? Or is it another myth?  If there are any regulations, can you please point me to them.  

   

Thanks for your input.  

   

Roger  

   	  Quote: 	
		   	


  

  

  

   [quote]   [b]

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Faraday Cage

Yes and no.  In the certified world there are more hurdles needed to be jumped than in our  experimental neighborhood. I believe that in order for a certified airplane to  be IFR legal, it must be able to take a lightning strike with minimal damage.  The e-glass manufacturers do this by imbedding a copper/aluminum mesh in the  skin of the aircraft. While this might be a 'Faraday Cage', it's purpose is to  provide an electrical path for a lightning strike.

  

 This is only  an issue with glass airframes.

  

Bruce 

www.Glasair.org 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =  "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> 

 [quote]   

   --

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Faraday Cage

Time to add St Elmo's Fire to the discussion and the principals of an Air Capacitor.  

   

All aircraft should address an effective path to discharge Static buildup.  It is when they arc through a control surface hinge or bearing that it will get your attention.  That is long after it exceeds the aeroelectric discussion pool.  I have some great pictures of composite surfaces that were fried for lack of a dissipator wick and an effective circuit path.  

   

I think it’s a myth like flying with aluminum foil on your head.  

   

John Cox  

       

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ROGER & JEAN CURTIS

 Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 5:33 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Faraday Cage  

  

  

   

   

   

I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage in the structure.  In other words it must be surrounded with a conductive material in the skin.  This is to conduct static electricity.  

   

Does anyone know anything about this?? Or is it another myth?  If there are any regulations, can you please point me to them.  

   

Thanks for your input.  

   

Roger  [quote]  [/b][/b][/b][/b]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List[/b]http://forums.matronics.com[/b]http://www.matronics.com/contribution [b]

Mark Phillips in TN

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 431
Location: Columbia, TN

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: Faraday Cage

In a message dated 05/26/2008 11:06:18 AM Central Daylight Time, mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage in the structure. 	


 >>>

  

 Seems I recall the Beech Starship had copper mesh in its skin for this reason, which was another co$tly headache towards eventual certification.

  

 Mark

 do not archive



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

_________________
From The PossumWorks...

rtdin

Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Florida panhandle

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: Faraday Cage

It sure looks like they intended that when they wrote FAR Part 23. Go to the FAA home page and click on FAR 23.867 (c) (2). 

 

 Bob Dingley

**************

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)  [quote][b]

walter.fellows(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: Faraday Cage

This seems to be a requirement for certified aircraft, for example the

DA 20 is not certified for IFR flight and does not have the cage but

the DA 40 is and does have the cage. The Columbia had to add the cage

in adapting the ES to the certified Columbia. The farady cage for

composite aircraft is created with a copper or aluminum mesh in the

outer layer of the shells, electrically bonding the parts of the

exterior together (such as aileron to wing skin), adding a ground

plane and electrically isolating the control tubes and cables from the

cockpit. You can read more about it in Martin Hollmann's book Advanced

Aircraft Design.



On Mon, May 26, 2008 at 5:33 AM, ROGER &  JEAN CURTIS

<mrspudandcompany(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 I recently heard that all aircraft to be flown IFR must have a Faraday Cage

 in the structure.  In other words it must be surrounded with a conductive

 material in the skin.  This is to conduct static electricity.



 Does anyone know anything about this?? Or is it another myth?  If there are

 any regulations, can you please point me to them.



 Thanks for your input.



 Roger

rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:43 pm Post subject: Re: Faraday Cage

Metal mesh in the wing skin does not constitute a faraday cage.

Different purpose and different design

_________________
Ira N224XS

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Faraday Cage

Part 23 deals with certified aircraft.  Experimental aircraft, such as the wooden one, which I am building, are not required to meet these specs.  That being said, it is not a bad idea to try to build an aircraft that is as safe as possible.  

   

Roger  

   

--

rjquillin

Joined: 13 May 2007
Posts: 123
Location: KSEE

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Faraday Cage

At 13:56 5/26/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  It sure looks like they intended that when they wrote FAR Part 23. Go to the FAA home page and click on FAR 23.867 (c) (2). 



 Bob Dingley 	


 Is "that" a Faraday Cage you refer to?

 I fly a certified AC that is also certified for IFR.  TC is A18CE.

 It's tube and fabric.

 Sure no cage around me.



 [url=http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgFAR.nsf/0/712e485b8e0b06c185256687006f0fb7%21OpenDocument&ExpandSection=-1&Highlight 3.867#_Section1]  [/url]Sec. 23.867



 Part 23 AIRWORTHINESS STANDARDS: NORMAL, UTILITY, ACROBATIC, AND COMMUTER CATEGORY AIRPLANES

 

 Subpart D--Design and Construction

 Electrical Bonding and Lightning Protection



 

 Sec. 23.867



 [Electrical bonding and protection against lightning and static electricity.]



 (a) The airplane must be protected against catastrophic effects from lightning.

 (b) For metallic components, compliance with paragraph (a) of this section may be shown by--

 (1) Bonding the components properly to the airframe; or

 (2) Designing the components so that a strike will not endanger the airplane.

 (c) For non-metallic components, compliance with paragraph (a) of this section may be shown by--

 (1) Designing the components to minimize the effect of a strike; or

 (2) Incorporating acceptable means of diverting the resulting electrical current so as not to endanger the airplane. 



 Sure don't see any implied cage here, just bonding of metallic components if there are any, unless you care to argue (c)(2) can be satisfied with a cage.  Acceptable?  Humm...  That will vary by ACO.

 Ron Q.    [quote][b]

rtdin

Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Florida panhandle

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: Faraday Cage

Re: "Faraday cages" on Bellanca aircraft. It does in fact have a tube structure around the entire fuselage and all components are bonded to each other. Same as Pipers and Stinsons. It also was grandfathered by being first certified under CAR 3 pre WW2. Like wise the DC3 does not comply with FAR 25 either. Grandfathered and still legal. Ya'll be careful around those t-storms in wooden airplanes and avoid them by 20 miles.

 

 I used to fly a lot of hard IFR in Sikorsky 76's and took a few hits. Its forward fuselage (with fuel tanks) is a composite structure. Certified under FAR 29. The stroke travels back through the semi monocoque metal aft fuselage, through the composite hor stabilizer and out through the static wicks. All composite structures have that mesh stuff imbedded. All structures are bonded to each other. If not, the radome or the f.g. tail fairing would be blown to little pieces.

 

 Old Bob

**************

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4&?NCID=aolfod00030000000002)  [quote][b]

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