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Zenith Builder

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yak52

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 50

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: Zenith Builder

Do you fit this profile?

 1. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I read alot about crashes in other types of high speed, pressurized airplanes built 30 to fifty years ago and interpolate from that to this airplane.

  

 2. I change the thickness of the metal in one or more parts of the airplane without consideration of the distribution of the stress loads to other parts of the airplane.

  

 3. I add doublers to various parts of the airframe  also without structural analysis.

  

 4. I buy materials for construction, sometimes from foreign countries to save a buck- without getting certifications that the materials meet the standards.

  

 5. I change the materials from 6061 to 2024 or some other alloy without getting information as to the appropriateness of that alloy in that part being verified.

  

 6. I don't care what the airplane is designed for- I'm going to " yank and bank" because I could have done what Chuck Yeager did if only I had the chance. My only flight time was in  a 152.

  

 7. My medical expired 7-8 years ago.

  

 8. My plane hasn't been finished although I've been working on it for 5+ years. I just keep on making changes to make it better and keep me from ever having to actually fly it.

  

 9. I'm sure I "know" more than the designer, who is fat or lazy or incompetent and is trying to hide his mistakes by refusing to help in the accident investigation and nothing, including the facts is going  to dissuade me from that knowledge. Plus, I called them once and they didn't get back to me within 30 minutes and I won't stand for being "dissed" by anybody.

   

 10. I'm sure the FAA and NTSB are fat, lazy and incompetent and really don't care about these accidents which are surely caused by some design error and/or are in league with the designer or some tri-lateral commission to steal our precious freedoms or drain our precious bodily fluids.

   

 11. I intend to make significant changes to the control surfaces based on a book I partially read once.

  

 12. I never intend to go back and check the torque on bolts or cable tensions once the airplane is completed.

  

 13. Despite all this, I fully intend to blame the designer for any incident that happens anywhere in the world for any kit ot clone ever built by anyone.

  

 Welcome to the group.

  

  [quote][b]

moorecomp

Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 32

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Zenith Builder

"Me Thinks Thou Doth Protest Too Much"



Craig Moore A&P

Mancelona, MI

Larry Hursh

Joined: 16 Feb 2008
Posts: 125
Location: Edwardsburg, MI (near Elkhart, IN)

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Zenith Builder

From: roger lambert <n601ap(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Zenith Builder

To: "zenith-list(at)matronics.com" <zenith-list(at)matronics.com>

Date: Wednesday, June 4, 2008, 7:56 AM

  	  Quote: 	
		    Do you fit this profile?

 1. I'm not an aeronautical engineer, but I read alot about crashes in other types of high speed, pressurized airplanes built 30 to fifty years ago and interpolate from that to this airplane.

 2. I change the thickness of the metal in one or more parts of the airplane without consideration of the distribution of the stress loads to other parts of the airplane.

 3. I add doublers to various parts of the airframe  also without structural analysis.

 4. I buy materials for construction, sometimes from foreign countries to save a buck- without getting certifications that the materials meet the standards." etc...etc.

 **************************************************

 Roger,

 Can I make a suggestion to you?  Try avoiding so much caffeine and back away from the computer for awhile.  It might help your attitude and you won't "bounce" as much.  It helped me.....  

 regards,

 Larry H

 do not archive

           [quote][b]

_________________
Larry Hursh (N650LM Reserved)

"One rivet at a time......one day at a time.."

CH650 (Converted from CH601XL)
1/2 done with fuselage
will be Corvair Powered

japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:55 am Post subject: Zenith Builder

no.

 

 

 --

Scotsman

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 89
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Zenith Builder

Does this come naturally to you....if so seek help.

jshep00(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: Zenith Builder

Do you fit this profile? 

 I complain about every thing but have no Ideas of  my own.

  

 Even though I know that al least 6 601's have had  fatal crashes, 2 with the skins coming off and at least 2 with the lower spar  cap failing,  I feel the airplane is just fine and it always happens to  someone else.

  

 Even though  the plans I bought show +6 and _6  "G"s I don't think there are any problems now that the designer has changed the  -"G"s to -3 and reccomended a limit to the elevator - travel which may be a  problem if your CG is not quite perfect.

  

 Get the picture??? Think about it!!!!    

  

 This designer needs to step up to the plate and let  those of us that are building according to his plans just what area of his  design is prone to failure before his published and sold +6 -6 "G"s. and how to  remedy the problem!! 

  I don't fit all of your criteria, and I have  talked to Chris on many occasions about the changes to his design I have  made.  Some are just common sense. 

  

 PS Neither the skins or the wings on our 601 will  come off...Something else will fail first.

 [quote]   ---

agibeaut

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 64

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Zenith Builder

Sorry Jerry, you lost me with your innuendo based, quasi-logic. 

--- On Fri, 6/6/08, Jerry Shepard <jshep00(at)centurytel.net> wrote:



[quote] From: Jerry Shepard <jshep00(at)centurytel.net>

 Subject: Re: Zenith Builder

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Friday, June 6, 2008, 8:37 PM

 Do you fit this profile? 

 I complain about every thing but have no Ideas of my own.

 

 Even though I know that al least 6 601's have had fatal

 crashes, 2 with the skins coming off and at least 2 with the

 lower spar cap failing,  I feel the airplane is just fine

 and it always happens to someone else.

 

 Even though  the plans I bought show +6 and _6

 "G"s I don't think there are any problems now

 that the designer has changed the -"G"s to -3 and

 reccomended a limit to the elevator - travel which may be a

 problem if your CG is not quite perfect.

 

 Get the picture??? Think about it!!!!   

 

 This designer needs to step up to the plate and let those

 of us that are building according to his plans just what

 area of his design is prone to failure before his published

 and sold +6 -6 "G"s. and how to remedy the

 problem!! 

  I don't fit all of your criteria, and I have talked to

 Chris on many occasions about the changes to his design I

 have made.  Some are just common sense. 

 

 PS Neither the skins or the wings on our 601 will come

 off...Something else will fail first.

   ---

jshep00(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject: Zenith Builder

we all have an adgenda,---- or do we????

---

Andrewlieser

Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Posts: 43
Location: Chicagoland

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Zenith Builder

Interesting side note; I previously owned a set of Sonex plans (set 929 dated prior to sport pilot licensing) and that design was rated at +6 /-6 in the aerobatic category and +6 /-3 in the utility category.  A quick check of their website and it now shows +4.4 /-2.2 in the utility and +6/-3 in the aerobatic loading category.  This makes me think that maybe manufacturers are getting a little more cautious since the sport pilot licensing began and would appear that this is not just a Zenith problem but rather all manufacturers are scared by less experienced pilots over controlling their designs.  Just an FYI



Do Not Archive

_________________
Andrew Lieser
S/N 6-7045
http://websites.expercraft.com/andrewlieser

eldenej(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Zenith Builder

Jerry, 

  

Let me ask that you elaborate on "the changes to his design I have made..." that will insure  that "neither the skins or the wings on our 601 will come off."  

  

Thanks, 

  

Elden J. (do no archive)



--- On Sat, 6/7/08, Jerry Shepard <jshep00(at)centurytel.net> wrote:

 [quote]From: Jerry Shepard <jshep00(at)centurytel.net>

Subject: Re: Zenith Builder

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Saturday, June 7, 2008, 9:37 AM



    Do you fit this profile? 

 I complain about every thing but have no Ideas of my own.

  

 Even though I know that al least 6 601's have had fatal crashes, 2 with the skins coming off and at least 2 with the lower spar cap failing,  I feel the airplane is just fine and it always happens to someone else.

  

 Even though  the plans I bought show +6 and _6 "G"s I don't think there are any problems now that the designer has changed the -"G"s to -3 and reccomended a limit to the elevator - travel which may be a problem if your CG is not quite perfect.

  

 Get the picture??? Think about it!!!!   

  

 This designer needs to step up to the plate and let those of us that are building according to his plans just what area of his design is prone to failure before his published and sold +6 -6 "G"s. and how to remedy the problem!! 

  I don't fit all of your criteria, and I have talked to Chris on many occasions about the changes to his design I have made.  Some are just common sense. 

  

 PS Neither the skins or the wings on our 601 will come off...Something else will fail first.

 [quote] ---

d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: Zenith Builder

Perhaps given the current climate it would be best  if you did that offline. While I have no doubt improvements are possible, the  very notion appears to create a lot of acrimony

 [quote]   ---

eldenej(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: Zenith Builder

Dave, 

  

 Your point is a good one; I will do that. 

  

Elden J.



--- On Sun, 6/8/08, Dave G. <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

 [quote]From: Dave G. <d.goddard(at)ns.sympatico.ca>

Subject: Re: Zenith Builder

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, June 8, 2008, 12:16 AM



  Perhaps given the current climate it would be best if you did that offline. While I have no doubt improvements are possible, the very notion appears to create a lot of acrimony

 [quote] ---

Yak52(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:06 am Post subject: Zenith Builder

The +6-6 was ultimate load.

 If you have made changes that will insure that the wings do not come off,  I'm sure everyone agrees that you should keep it a secret. After all, only  the "enlightened" should be saved; and you can gleefully count the crashes of  those who didn't  come to worship at your throne. More importantly, without  that information, your changes  can never be examined, unlike Mr. Heintz  who is under perpetual scrutiny and criticism by members of this group. .  



Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

  [quote][b]

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