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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

Hi guys,



I recently flew thru some rain showers and was wondering if there was 

any prospect of fouling the plugs electrically.  Nothing was noticed, 

but the rain that washed over my canopy and wings got rid of a lot of 

bugs.  Is there any reason to worry about a light rain?



 



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

Larry,



I have flown through rain many times in production airplanes and never had a problem with the operation of the engine.  I think that those spark plugs are so hot that moisture just sizzles off before it can create a short circuit.



Jay in Dallas

LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi guys,



I recently flew thru some rain showers and was wondering if there was 

any prospect of fouling the plugs electrically.  Nothing was noticed, 

but the rain that washed over my canopy and wings got rid of a lot of 

bugs.  Is there any reason to worry about a light rain?



 



Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:33 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

Hi Larry,



Rain shouldn't be a problem in and of itself.  However, it does 

present a couple of secondary issues.



First is the reduced viability.  If your only method of avoiding 

aluminum or granite clouds is by looking out the windshield then rain 

can reduce this ability.



Second, if the temperature is right (wrong?) you face the possibility 

of rapid build up of clear ice.  This will prevent your plane from 

flying due to the changed airfoil shape and rapidly increased 

weight.  The good news is if you change altitude soon enough the ice 

will melt.  However, if you are already at low altitude your options 

are quickly reduced.  Icing happens only near the freezing point of 

water - give or take a few degrees, so if you stay well above that 

air temperature you should not have a problem.



Third (and this is a stretch) is the possibility of carb ice.  To get 

rain it must be around 100 percent humidity and this means carb ice 

will form if the outside air temperature is in the neighborhood of 70 

degrees.  I might be wrong about the actual temperature since it 

depends on the temperature reduction in your 

carburetor.  Fortunately, you probably have carb heat to deal with 

this.  If it is raining and your engine starts running rough or slow 

then adding carb heat is a great idea.



Lastly, rain is noisy.  It can make you very nervous.  It can also 

get you silly comments from ATC like "multiple targets in your 

vicinity".  (I got that once from a very green Air Force tower controller.)



Have fun,



Paul

XL fuselage

do not archive



At 05:29 PM 6/2/2008, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi guys,



I recently flew thru some rain showers and was wondering if there 

was any prospect of fouling the plugs electrically.  Nothing was 

noticed, but the rain that washed over my canopy and wings got rid 

of a lot of bugs.  Is there any reason to worry about a light rain?

Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

Rain water does not have any (many?) minerals, so it should not conduct or short your electrical system. 



Kevin

do not archive

_________________
â€œAlways do what you are afraid to do.â€
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)

"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

Larry,



Everything about the electrical seems to have been covered.  I don't think light rain would be much of a problem.  Kinda like driving your car through a puddle.  Heavy rain would be like driving through the river.



I would shy away from rain if you have a wood prop.  I hear it's not good for them, no actual experience.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

I got my PP in Oregon. Consequently, I flew in a lot of rain and very humid 

conditions.  Carb ice is not uncommon on a mid 60deg day in the rain.  Used 

to have to use some carb heat just getting to the departure end of the 

runway.  It is something to be aware of in the rain.



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"Hope for the best,

but prepare for the worst."



do not archive

---

professor71(at)HOTMAIL.CO
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:38 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

Hi Larry

I have been through several light-moderate rain showers without a problem with the engine. A little anecdote here (please do not laugh to hard) The first time it happened (light shower) I was still pretty new to flying and I started dropping altitude figuring I would avoid any clouds. My friend who is an 80 year old pilot started chuckling and asked me where I was going. He said the rain goes all the way to the ground, just thank God for the free wash job. I do remember that the rain on the canopy was real loud.

Regards

John



 	  Quote: 	
		   Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:29:30 -0500

 From: larry(at)macsmachine.com

 To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com; stratus-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: spark plugs and rain

 

 --> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>

 

 Hi guys,

 

 I recently flew thru some rain showers and was wondering if there was 

 any prospect of fouling the plugs electrically.  Nothing was noticed, 

 but the rain that washed over my canopy and wings got rid of a lot of 

 bugs.  Is there any reason to worry about a light rain?

 

  

 

 Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com

&gt
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.

davgray(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:46 am Post subject: spark plugs and rain

With respect to VFR pilots and VFR aircraft

One of my instructors,  ex navy pilot,  told me if you can't see all the way

thru the rain shower area then you should consider going around it.  Once

you enter it, you can not be sure you will find any area with better

conditions.



Gary Ray

---

grant.corriveau(at)TELUS.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:48 am Post subject: spark plugs and rain

Piston-powered commercial aircraft operate in all sorts of weather.   

I've never heard of spark plugs being a problem assuming that the  

engine compartment isn't being flooded.  Even then, the plugs and  

ignition system is usually pretty water proof from the outside...



Referring to spark plugs inside the cylinder, remember that the air  

is heated several degrees by compression, first in the induction  

system due to initial compression (and even manifold preheat on most  

automotive conversions like my CAM100); then with in-cylinder  

compression the heating is significant.  All this to say that shortly  

after the air enters the cylinder, the relative humidity is really  

really low.



Another small point - water injection was once a technique used to  

help gain even more compression of air into (mainly? exclusively?)  

jet engines.  The heat absorbed by the energy of vaporization of  

water allowed for more dense intake of air, so more power - helpful  

on really hot days.  so, fwiw - the rain may be helping our piston  

engines develop more power.



In the previous responses to your posting, perhaps not enough stress  

has been placed on the wear and tear that occurs on non-metal  

propellors.  Check the archives for George Pinneo's comments about  

how badly his composite prop was eroded by flight in rain.  I plan to  

eventually have my Warp Drive prop re-finished with the nickel  

leading edges because now that I'm flying on the West Coast, rain is  

an inevitability.



Grant

GHTF 601HDS

CAM100

DaveG601XL

Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Cincinnati, Oh

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

The Sensenich rep at Sun-N-Fun recommended pulling the power back to 2200 RPM if flying one of their wooden props in the rain.  I was asking about the prop that goes with the Jabiru, W64ZK-49.  This may be different for another prop size.

_________________
David Gallagher
Cincinnati, OH area

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: spark plugs and rain

Just  a fast comment,   The 2,200 rpm are in the propeller,  so do your math with the reduction drive  if using a Rotax 912...   Yes there are at least a couple of 912's  using wooden props around here.  (not mine). 

  

Saludos 

Gary Gower. 

--- On Tue, 6/3/08, DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com> wrote:

 [quote]From: DaveG601XL <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>

Subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 11:20 AM



[quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "DaveG601XL" <david.m.gallagher(at)ge.com>  The Sensenich rep at Sun-N-Fun recommended pulling the power back to 2200 RPM if flying one of their wooden props in the rain.  -------- David Gallagher 601 XL, working on final assembly.     Read this topic online here:  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186039#186039                [quote][b]

rtdin

Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Florida panhandle

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:27 am Post subject: spark plugs and rain

I don't think rain will effect a normal ignition system. There is a lot of rain here along the Gulf Coast and a lot of us fly VFR in it. A good point well made is to not fly through anything that you cannot see through. After a dozen hours, a little in rain, my wood prop looked like it had been dragged behind a pick up truck. The new clear finish had been applied over the brass abrasion strips. The degradation started there.

 Bob   Do not archive 

**************

Get trade secrets for amazing burgers. Watch "Cooking with Tyler Florence" on AOL Food.

      (http://food.aol.com/tyler-florence?video=4?&NCID=aolfod00030000000002)  [quote][b]

jmcburney(at)pobox.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: spark plugs and rain

My dad used to talk about water injection on his Ford Model T.



Do not archive



Blue skies and tailwinds



Jim

CH-801

DeltaHawk diesel

Augusta GA

90% done, 90% left

ashontz

Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:40 am Post subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

Larry, the plugs themselves aren't a problem. More likely any problem spots would be water somehow making it's way into the distributor or under the boots of the wires. The distributor should have a nice o-ring under the cap, should come from the factory tht way, as far as the pulg wire boots, I believe AutoZone sells stuff, some sort of gel, that you can put on the plug tips before installing the wire to help keep them from getting dirty and corroded. I've had old distributors in my pickup that have given me trouble on rainy days (I guess it was just the humidity or maybe some water managed to splash up from the street). Anyway, car ran fine after it warmed up long enough to heat the distributor a bit, but ran rough up till that point. The problem was a worn corroded looking cap contacts as well as rotor contact, that thing was all corroded looking too. Granted, that was just age, but it did act up when it was wet out, and probably how it managed to age rapidly to begin with. I changed the wires for good measure at the time too. Anyway, short answer, water can affect the ignition system, but less of a chance if you have the boots and cap sealed well, the plugs themselves should be fine, but I believe there's a product you can apply to the threads to help out too. Just put it on your list of things to check once a year, pull the cap and check out the rotor and cap contacts and plug boots. I'd imagine you'd be pulling the plugs once a year anyway to see what's going on inside.

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:01 am Post subject: spark plugs and rain

One of the big problems (at least in cars)  for water in the distributor,  is that the vapor from the water in the muffler  gets inside the dist cap and make an electric arc.  will not get the spark to the spark plugs.   Some kind of spray or something betwen the distributor and the Dist cup needed  to prevent this. 

  

Saludos 

Gary Gower



--- On Thu, 6/5/08, ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org> wrote:

 [quote]From: ashontz <ashontz(at)nbme.org>

Subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, June 5, 2008, 7:40 AM



[quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>  Larry, the plugs themselves aren't a problem. More likely any problem spots would be water somehow making it's way into the distributor or under the boots of the wires. The distributor should have a nice o-ring under the cap, should come from the factory tht way, as far as the pulg wire boots, I believe AutoZone sells stuff, some sort of gel, that you can put on the plug tips before installing the wire to help keep them from getting dirty and corroded. I've had old distributors in my pickup that have given me trouble on rainy days (I guess it was just the humidity or maybe some water managed to splash up from the street). Anyway, car ran fine after it warmed up long enough to heat the distributor a bit, but ran rough up till that point. The problem was a worn corroded looking cap contacts as well as rotor contact, that thing was all corroded looking too. Granted, that was just age, but it did act up when it was wet out, and probably how it managed to age rapidly to begin wit!  h. I changed the wires for good measure at the time too. Anyway, short answer, water can affect the ignition system, but less of a chance if you have the boots and cap sealed well, the plugs themselves should be fine, but I believe there's a product you can apply to the threads to help out too. Just put it on your list of things to check once a year, pull the cap and check out the rotor and cap contacts and plug boots. I'd imagine you'd be pulling the plugs once a year anyway to see what's going on inside.  -------- Andy Shontz  do not archive  CH601XL - Corvair www.mykitlog.com/ashontz     Read this topic online here:  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=186341#186341                  [quote][b]

paulrod36(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  ooooookaay, so it should be all right to fill your bathtub with distilled,  demineralized water, jump in, and then drop your (plugged in) hair dryer in with  you?  Just checkin'.........

  

 Paul Rodriguez

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

 [quote]   ---

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

Some of the machines I work with have Vac tubes running 12KVDC (at) 4-5 amps on the plate, it is directly cooled with distilled water from your friendly neighborhood, convenience store.  The pump that circulates it is well  grounded and made of conductive material. So ya, go ahead, if it turns your crank.



Kevin

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

That's what theory says.

But I'll let you jump in first...



Carlos

Do not archive



On 6/6/08, paulrod36(at)msn.com <paulrod36(at)msn.com> wrote:

[quote] ooooookaay, so it should be all right to fill your bathtub with distilled,

 demineralized water, jump in, and then drop your (plugged in) hair dryer in

 with you?  Just checkin'.........



 Paul Rodriguez

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

   ---

psm(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:49 pm Post subject: spark plugs and rain

Actually, the hair dryer and bath tub make very poor weapons.  Only 

in Hollywood is such a thing a way to kill someone.  Even if there 

were a real danger from this silly action, the GFI power outlet 

required in bath rooms would prevent a significant amount of 

electrical shock for the bather.



Paul

do not archive



At 01:07 PM 6/6/2008, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ooooookaay, so it should be all right to fill your bathtub with 

distilled, demineralized water, jump in, and then drop your (plugged 

in) hair dryer in with you?  Just checkin'.........



Paul Rodriguez

DO NOT ARCHIVE

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: spark plugs and rain

We actually measure the conductance of the distilled water, it goes up with time, dissimilar metals and bad luck..... But it starts at around 2uS/cm.

Not theory at all.



Kevin

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