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dkandle
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Boise ID
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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I've got about 80 hours in my 701 with a 100 HP Rotax.
As others have said here, it lands much better with some power. I've tried a number of times to do a nearly zero power approach and never get a reasonable landing. I don't mind the firm arrival so much as my plane's tendency to yaw to the left right at touchdown. I looked at the "flywithgus.com" video and noticed that his firm landing was also accompanied by a left turn.
Because of the nose high approach attitude (even with flaps down) I've thought about approaching from left of centerline so that when I do hit the runway I'll be about straight. I do the shortest landings (under control) with speed of about 45-50 at the threshold. Any slower and I'm am very nose high and lots of left yaw. Much faster and I use too much runway (actually there are often no runways, just small clearings).
Have others noticed this, or is my plane just a bit out of sorts in this configuration?
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Tommy Walker
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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It definitely happens on our 701 too. I've run off the left side of the runway a couple of times. If you find out what is causing it, let us know.
Tommy Walker
Do Not Archive
| dkandle wrote: | I've got about 80 hours in my 701 with a 100 HP Rotax.
As others have said here, it lands much better with some power. I've tried a number of times to do a nearly zero power approach and never get a reasonable landing. I don't mind the firm arrival so much as my plane's tendency to yaw to the left right at touchdown. I looked at the "flywithgus.com" video and noticed that his firm landing was also accompanied by a left turn.
Because of the nose high approach attitude (even with flaps down) I've thought about approaching from left of centerline so that when I do hit the runway I'll be about straight. I do the shortest landings (under control) with speed of about 45-50 at the threshold. Any slower and I'm am very nose high and lots of left yaw. Much faster and I use too much runway (actually there are often no runways, just small clearings).
Have others noticed this, or is my plane just a bit out of sorts in this configuration? |
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Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL |
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sonar1@cox.net
Joined: 02 Oct 2007
Posts: 55
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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Yep, I have it too. I always land with no power, and about half the time there is a definite yaw to the left just at touchdown.
My no flap landings approach at 60, and pull power at the threshold. Most are ok, but if I hold it off to a very slow airspeed, it yaws left.
My flap down landings approach at 50 with no power, and are pretty steep - almost floating - angle. Ground run is very short, but if I hold it off too long, I get the left yaw there too.
When I try it at altitude, slowing to almost nothing, it doesn't happen.
I thought I was the only one, and blamed it on the wind coming out of the canyon on the left side of the runway.
Fred Sanford N9701 80hp rotax
Do not archive
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dkandle
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 10
Location: Boise ID
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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I have a theory -- The gear on the 701 has a lot of forward/aft movement available. When the nose is high at touchdown it moves the gear forward quite a bit. Any asymmetry in either the weight distribution or the gear could cause a turning tendency that is mechanical rather than aerodynamic in its origin.
I am going to try to get my wife to film some landings from directly in front of the plane as I land to see if I can determine what is happening. When I suggested this to her last night she said "well, at least I'll know which way to run so you don't hit me"
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Doug Kandle, Idaho |
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kmccune
Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: Re: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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Women...gotta love em! Sorry couldn't resist. Let us know what you find about the landing tendency.
Kevin
| dkandle wrote: | I have a theory -- The gear on the 701 has a lot of forward/aft movement available. When the nose is high at touchdown it moves the gear forward quite a bit. Any asymmetry in either the weight distribution or the gear could cause a turning tendency that is mechanical rather than aerodynamic in its origin.
I am going to try to get my wife to film some landings from directly in front of the plane as I land to see if I can determine what is happening. When I suggested this to her last night she said "well, at least I'll know which way to run so you don't hit me" |
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“Always do what you are afraid to do.”
R.W. Emerson (1803-1882)
"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009
"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune |
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321PT
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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I had one of those "left turn tendencies" as well in a strong cross wind. I found my problem is with the front wheel tied to the rudder inputs... you have to remember to neutralize that at touchdown otherwise you just follow where your front wheel is pointin'.
Paul Tipton
321PT
[quote][b]
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Terry Phillips
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Corvallis, MT
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| Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:13 am Post subject: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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Interesting thought, Paul.
This is a concern that I have had about my 601XL, born of the simulated
"flying" that I've done with X-Plane. If I set up the simulation in a C-172
with a strong (say 20 or 25 kt crosswind from the right), the tail wants to
weather-vane, turning the plane into the wind. I cannot taxi in a straight
line without a lot of left rudder. But, if my nose wheel is linked to the
rudder, then I'll turn the nose wheel to the left, and it will want to
steer me to the left. The question is whether, in the 601XL (or 701), the
rudder requirement and the nose wheel steering can be balanced to allow one
to steer in a straight line. I'm intrigued by the steering mod used by Larry:
http://www.skyhawg.com/petals.html
Has anyone else tried this mod? How did it work? Any effect on the landing
turn tendencies?
Terry
At 08:52 AM 6/11/2008 -0500, you wrote:
| Quote: | I had one of those "left turn tendencies" as well in a strong cross
wind. I found my problem is with the front wheel tied to the rudder
inputs... you have to remember to neutralize that at touchdown otherwise
you just follow where your front wheel is pointin'.
Paul Tipton
321PT
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Terry Phillips
ttp44~at~rkymtn.net
Corvallis MT
601XL/Jab 3300 s .. l .. o .. o .. w build kit - Tail, flaps, & ailerons
are done; working on the wings
http://www.mykitlog.com/N47TP/
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Terry Phillips
Corvallis, MT
ttp44<at>rkymtn.net
Zenith 601XL/Jab 3300 slow build kit - Tail feathers done; working on the wings. |
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Tommy Walker
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 442
Location: Anniston, AL 36207
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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Builders,
Here's a single short video of N8701 turning final and landing this morning at our country airport. I made this by holding my cheap Sony digital camera up and pointing it at the nose.
This time, as you can see there was no left turning tendency. touchdown was about 45 mph at around 2500 rpm.
No Flare! Just land.
You can hear a chattering sound after touchdown. The nose wheel is out of balance. I am going to pull it off and take it to a motorcycle shop and get it balanced.
The mpg file is 23 MB so it takes a few minutes to load. I don't know how to do streaming video.
http://myweb.cableone.net/twalker/june08.mpg
Happy Flying,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
N8701
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Tommy Walker
N25A - Anniston, AL |
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dwilde(at)clearwire.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Left Turning Tendency in the Flare |
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Tommy Walker wrote:
| Quote: |
Builders,
Here's a single short video of N8701 turning final and landing this morning at our country airport. I made this by holding my cheap Sony digital camera up and pointing it at the nose.
This time, as you can see there was no left turning tendency. touchdown was about 45 mph at around 2500 rpm.
No Flare! Just land.
You can hear a chattering sound after touchdown. The nose wheel is out of balance. I am going to pull it off and take it to a motorcycle shop and get it balanced.
The mpg file is 23 MB so it takes a few minutes to load. I don't know how to do streaming video.
http://myweb.cableone.net/twalker/june08.mpg
Happy Flying,
Tommy Walker in Alabama
N8701
I noticed the left turn last weekend only when the nose was pointed up
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in a steeper flare.
Dan Wilde
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