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structeral epoxy questions

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thesupe(at)hotmail.com
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Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: structeral epoxy questions

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi all,  I'm about to start working on my Kitfox 4 project wings and have some questions about the epoxy.  I got 2 cans of each of the Scotch weld 2216 B/A adhesive, but they are as old as the kit (1994).  I mixed some up and left it on a piece of plywood and stuck a 16 penny nail in it.  When it harded, I tried to bend the nail out of it sideways, and all that happened was the nail bent.  Even though it seems good, I suppose I should get new adhesive.  Any thoughts on a good adhesive besides Scotch weld and any ideas on getting accurate mix ratios of the two parts of the glue would help me.  I see some of these glues can be pumped through a small double caulk gun and it comes out mixed, anybody use that stuff?    Thanks,  Jim Chuk  Avids,  Kitfox 4

      

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: structeral epoxy questions

Hi Jim-

When I got my 3-previous-owners kit, I smelled the structural  

adhesive, and it smelled strong of ammonia, which I heard/read was  

the death knell of this product. This product was 10 years old at the  

time, so I "chuked" it....bad pun intended. I ordered Hysol 9460  

locally in...as I recall...1pound cans...one each of hardener and  

epoxy. They got to me in less than 24 hours.

I mix mine using the gram scales that were formerly used in my other  

life....NO, NO, NO...not seriously. What I do is set the scales up  

with a clear plastic yogurt lid on the side where the adhesive is to  

be placed, then set the scales to zero. Then using the desired amount  

of each, measure the exact amount of each by weight. Measuring each  

by volume doesn't work for me...too imprecise. But whatever method  

you chose to weigh or eyeball, the beauty of mixing on the  

CLEAR...not translucent...plastic or glass is that you can see when  

the mix is absolutely all mixed by looking at the underside of the  

glass or plastic...it'll be all grey with no white or black streaks  

showing.

One guy told  me he mixed the stuff by putting one part of the black  

on the "mixing board" and then adding the white until the mix was  

grey. I can't imagine he ever got two batches mixed the same but he  

says he did. I'm too anal to do it this way. And I'm too damned cheap  

to buy the double tube stuff...what happens when you get to the end,  

toss the stuff left in the tube when the plunger is all the way in?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/530 hrs





On Jun 14, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Jim_and_Lucy Chuk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,  I'm about to start working on my Kitfox 4 project wings  

 and have some questions about the epoxy.  I got 2 cans of each of  

 the Scotch weld 2216 B/A adhesive, but they are as old as the kit  

 (1994).  I mixed some up and left it on a piece of plywood and  

 stuck a 16 penny nail in it.  When it harded, I tried to bend the  

 nail out of it sideways, and all that happened was the nail bent.   

 Even though it seems good, I suppose I should get new adhesive.   

 Any thoughts on a good adhesive besides Scotch weld and any ideas  

 on getting accurate mix ratios of the two parts of the glue would  

 help me.  I see some of these glues can be pumped through a small  

 double caulk gun and it comes out mixed, anybody use that stuff?     

 Thanks,  Jim Chuk  Avids,  Kitfox 4



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 through Windows Live™ Messenger. Learn How._- 

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: structeral epoxy questions

Jim Chuck

Having used both the 3M and Hysol, I highly recommend the Hysol.  It is much easier to work with. It doesn't sag like the 3m.



To make factory like fillets put the mixed hysol in a sturdy ziplock bag and cut a small piece of a corner so you can use it like a cake decorator to apply.



Hysol is mixed 50/50 by volume so real easy to portion out too.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: Re: structeral epoxy questions

Jim,

I should add another hysol or 3m tip.  You can position it and smooth it out nicely with a gloved finger dipped in alcohol.



And don't throw out the old 3m.  While you don't want to use it on your wings it is handy to have around for use on things other than airplane.

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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: structeral epoxy questions

Assuming the operative word here is “structural” then the only way to go is with metered resins (resin to cloth by weight) or Pre-Preg and vacuum bagging.  It also helps to have an ultrasonic tester to check your work.  Past that which resins you use depends on what works best for you.  

   

Noel  

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

thesupe(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: structeral epoxy questions

Thanks Tom for the tip.  And also thanks to all of you others that replied to my question.  One last question, has anyone used Aeropoxy structural adhesive?  I see it is a 1 to 1 mix also.  Thanks again,  Jim Chuk  Avids, kitfox 4  Mn

[quote] Subject: Kitfox-List: Re: structeral epoxy questions

 From: nahsikhs(at)elltel.net

 Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2008 05:43:08 -0700

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Tom Jones" <nahsikhs(at)elltel.net>

 Jim,

 I should add another hysol or 3m tip. You can position it and smooth it out nicely with a gloved finger dipped in alcohol.

 And don't throw out the old 3m. While you don't want to use it on your wings it is handy to have around for use on things other than airplane.

 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA

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