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Yak-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/12/08

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michael(at)sf2racing.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/12/08

I have been reading with great interest the many posts concerning Litaurus.

My concern would be the lack of responsibility on behalf of the aircraft

brokers involved. We have two individuals in business brokering airplanes. I

say "business" because I am sure there is profit involved in the

transaction, or else why bother? The people who placed deposits on

airplanes, were they advised that ultimately they were dealing with some one

of less than reputable reputation? I think not. I am fairly certain the

deposits were sent to the brokers, not Lithuania. At that point the

responsibility lies with the broker. If you chose to represent people who

are known to be less than reputable, you take the risk of soiling your own

reputation. You took the risk, now you are expecting people who gave YOU the

deposits to assume the loss? If the transaction would have gone smoothly

would you have returned your commissions? I think not. To separate oneself

from this responsibility, to "pass the buck" instead of returning earnest

money and accepting responsibility for your own poor judgment I find

appalling. 



--

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dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/12/08

Since in your hast to be critical you did not sign your email I can only assume your name is really is Michael.....

  

 Michael, 

 You have stated the obvious about making a profit, and then you go on to make assumptions way outside the scope of your knowledge of the situation.  I don't mean to be harsh but none of the "brokers" that I know of (including myself) have any intention of expecting the customer to assume the loss.  They are honorable folks caught up in a bad situation, and I seriously doubt that there is any basis for your your comments.  In my situation I gave deposits back on 4 engines when this gentlemen did not ship, and I would expect that if it becomes apparent that he is not going to provide the aircraft a similar action will make the customer whole again.   

   

 The reason this dialogue was started in the first place was not to cast doubt or question the honor or intentions of the brokers involved, but to utilize the far reaching readership of the Yak list in an attempt to stop any more people from being sucked into a similar situation.  If you personally know the folks involved and have heard them say that they expect the customer to absorb the loss then there is a basis for your email, but I can assure the readership that this is NOT the case and I personally take great offense at your saying that this is our intentions or is a reflection of how we operate.

   

 You owe the brokers involved an apology, but since you didn't even sign your email I doubt you are a big enough man to admit that you mis spoke.

  

 My name and contact information is below should you wish to contact me.

  

  

 

 

 On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Michael Hanshew <michael(at)sf2racing.com (michael(at)sf2racing.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Michael Hanshew" <michael(at)sf2racing.com (michael(at)sf2racing.com)>

 

I have been reading with great interest the many posts concerning Litaurus.

My concern would be the lack of responsibility on behalf of the aircraft

brokers involved. We have two individuals in business brokering airplanes. I

 say "business" because I am sure there is profit involved in the

transaction, or else why bother? The people who placed deposits on

airplanes, were they advised that ultimately they were dealing with some one

 of less than reputable reputation? I think not. I am fairly certain the

deposits were sent to the brokers, not Lithuania. At that point the

responsibility lies with the broker. If you chose to represent people who

 are known to be less than reputable, you take the risk of soiling your own

reputation. You took the risk, now you are expecting people who gave YOU the

deposits to assume the loss? If the transaction would have gone smoothly

 would you have returned your commissions? I think not. To separate oneself

from this responsibility, to "pass the buck" instead of returning earnest

money and accepting responsibility for your own poor judgment I find

 appalling.



--

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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f4ffm2(at)ADELPHIA.NET
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/12/08

Hi Doug,



     Usually, I find your posts here to be a refreshing voice of logic and reason on this forum that is at times not really a bastion of well thought out ideas.



     This time, however, I am on the other side of the fence from you.  First, I thought you were a bit far out in jumping Mike Hanshew for not putting his name underneath his message...when he clearly identified himself in the message origin.



     For, the record Mike Hanshew is one of the most talented, straight forward and respectable members of the Yak/CJ community that there is.  He has a very nice Yak 52 and I have had the pleasure of flying with him in that airplane.  He is truly one of the good guys.



     This festering sore of  Liutauras Dzuisas and his business practices needs to be resolved in some way.  I must say that I don't have a really workable suggestion as to how this could be done.  It least, the whole ugly mess needs to be exposed to the Yak/CJ community.  I think that there are some people involved in this ugliness that should comment directly about their involvement and what, from their viewpoint, "really happened".



     A recent post by Ilia somebody excusing this as poor Liatauras having bad luck and being forced into a "Ponzi" scheme to try to save his business, etc., is pure hog wash.  Ponzi scheme or not, what this guy Dzuisas was/is doing is simply a continuing criminal enterprise.  Whoever started this thread (maybe Schrick) was right, simply put, the man should be put in jail AFTER whatever assets he has are returned to his trusting victims.



     Doug, what appears to have rattled your cage here was Mike's assertion that broker (or brokers) involved here have some culpability.  If I read you right that you don't think that they do, I must say that I think you are 100% wrong PARTICULARLY if they have a reason to even suspect that their source is less than reliable.



     In this case, it appears that one broker (wouldn't "agent" be a better term here?) continued to take deposits of 50% on airplanes to be delivered by Dzuisas even AFTER he knew that Dzuisas wasn't delivering airplanes as agreed.



     In a first deal situation, being cheated by a supposed seller who doesn't perform kind of puts everybody in the "victim" status.  But for a dealer/broker/agent to then continue to take 50% deposits for airplanes from a source that HE KNOWS has not performed honorably in the past raises questions about that persons character and integrity.



     For such a person, who appears to me to have been acting as agent, to then remain silent when it becomes public knowledge that the seller (Dzuisas, in this case) is conducting a continuing criminal enterprise raises really uncomfortable possibilities.  Those involved need to speak out....and sooner rather than later.



     Thanks for listening.



Roger Baker

     

---- doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

[quote] Since in your hast to be critical you did not sign your email I can only

 assume your name is really is Michael.....

 

 Michael,

 You have stated the obvious about making a profit, and then you go on to

 make assumptions way outside the scope of your knowledge of the situation.

 I don't mean to be harsh but none of the "brokers" that I know of (including

 myself) have any intention of expecting the customer to assume the loss.

 They are honorable folks caught up in a bad situation, and I seriously doubt

 that there is any basis for your your comments.  In my situation

 I gave deposits back on 4 engines when this gentlemen did not ship, and I

 would expect that if it becomes apparent that he is not going to provide the

 aircraft a similar action will make the customer whole again.

 

 The reason this dialogue was started in the first place was not to cast

 doubt or question the honor or intentions of the brokers involved, but to

 utilize the far reaching readership of the Yak list in an attempt to stop

 any more people from being sucked into a similar situation.  If you

 personally know the folks involved and have heard them say that they expect

 the customer to absorb the loss then there is a basis for your email, but I

 can assure the readership that this is NOT the case and I personally take

 great offense at your saying that this is our intentions or is a reflection

 of how we operate.

 

 You owe the brokers involved an apology, but since you didn't even sign your

 email I doubt you are a big enough man to admit that you mis spoke.

 

 My name and contact information is below should you wish to contact me.

 

 

 

 

 On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Michael Hanshew <michael(at)sf2racing.com>

 wrote:

 

 > 

 >

 > I have been reading with great interest the many posts concerning Litaurus.

 > My concern would be the lack of responsibility on behalf of the aircraft

 > brokers involved. We have two individuals in business brokering airplanes.

 > I

 > say "business" because I am sure there is profit involved in the

 > transaction, or else why bother? The people who placed deposits on

 > airplanes, were they advised that ultimately they were dealing with some

 > one

 > of less than reputable reputation? I think not. I am fairly certain the

 > deposits were sent to the brokers, not Lithuania. At that point the

 > responsibility lies with the broker. If you chose to represent people who

 > are known to be less than reputable, you take the risk of soiling your own

 > reputation. You took the risk, now you are expecting people who gave YOU

 > the

 > deposits to assume the loss? If the transaction would have gone smoothly

 > would you have returned your commissions? I think not. To separate oneself

 > from this responsibility, to "pass the buck" instead of returning earnest

 > money and accepting responsibility for your own poor judgment I find

 > appalling.

 >

 > --

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

f4ffm2(at)ADELPHIA.NET
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/12/08

---- doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

[quote] Since in your hast to be critical you did not sign your email I can only

 assume your name is really is Michael.....

 

 Michael,

 You have stated the obvious about making a profit, and then you go on to

 make assumptions way outside the scope of your knowledge of the situation.

 I don't mean to be harsh but none of the "brokers" that I know of (including

 myself) have any intention of expecting the customer to assume the loss.

 They are honorable folks caught up in a bad situation, and I seriously doubt

 that there is any basis for your your comments.  In my situation

 I gave deposits back on 4 engines when this gentlemen did not ship, and I

 would expect that if it becomes apparent that he is not going to provide the

 aircraft a similar action will make the customer whole again.

 

 The reason this dialogue was started in the first place was not to cast

 doubt or question the honor or intentions of the brokers involved, but to

 utilize the far reaching readership of the Yak list in an attempt to stop

 any more people from being sucked into a similar situation.  If you

 personally know the folks involved and have heard them say that they expect

 the customer to absorb the loss then there is a basis for your email, but I

 can assure the readership that this is NOT the case and I personally take

 great offense at your saying that this is our intentions or is a reflection

 of how we operate.

 

 You owe the brokers involved an apology, but since you didn't even sign your

 email I doubt you are a big enough man to admit that you mis spoke.

 

 My name and contact information is below should you wish to contact me.

 

 

 

 

 On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 8:24 AM, Michael Hanshew <michael(at)sf2racing.com>

 wrote:

 

 > 

 >

 > I have been reading with great interest the many posts concerning Litaurus.

 > My concern would be the lack of responsibility on behalf of the aircraft

 > brokers involved. We have two individuals in business brokering airplanes.

 > I

 > say "business" because I am sure there is profit involved in the

 > transaction, or else why bother? The people who placed deposits on

 > airplanes, were they advised that ultimately they were dealing with some

 > one

 > of less than reputable reputation? I think not. I am fairly certain the

 > deposits were sent to the brokers, not Lithuania. At that point the

 > responsibility lies with the broker. If you chose to represent people who

 > are known to be less than reputable, you take the risk of soiling your own

 > reputation. You took the risk, now you are expecting people who gave YOU

 > the

 > deposits to assume the loss? If the transaction would have gone smoothly

 > would you have returned your commissions? I think not. To separate oneself

 > from this responsibility, to "pass the buck" instead of returning earnest

 > money and accepting responsibility for your own poor judgment I find

 > appalling.

 >

 > --

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

aeroconcept

Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Posts: 3

Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Yak-List Digest: 8 Msgs - 06/12/08

The point was certainly not to excuse - or to accuse somebody, this being a judge's job. Being myself part of the trade, I hope that what happened, will help the Yak community sort out the legitimate players.



Ilia "something" Palamodov

Aeroconcept Trading

www.aero-concept.com

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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