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Fuel tank dimensions

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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: Fuel tank dimensions

I am considering a new tank - I don't like the  prospect of a crack when flying over Norwegian terrain - - - - - .  Will in  case make it higher than the original to compensate for less width (so as  to get it into the fuselage after cutting open the cockpit module top) and  in order to get more long range fuel capacity.

  

 Before I remove the existing tank, I wish to  evaluate tank material, dimensions and design details as far as possible, and  only make small adjustments after taking actual measurement of the available  space.

  

 I have received a sketch with dimensions from  EA2004, but they cannot confirm that it is an as-built drawing.  The  problem is that the volume calculated on the basis of this sketch is about 20%  larger than what our tanks actually contain.

  

 If anyone has a tank not yet installed, I would  appreciate very much to receive the dimensions A to E as marked on the attached  sketch  - in millimeters or inches.  Note:  Measurement E should  be taken close to the centerline, not in way of the recesses for the aileron  quick-connects at the sides.  I  have blacked out the dimensions received from Europa, in order not to  mislead anyone.

  

 Best regards,

 Svein

 LN-SKJ

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hagargs(at)earthlink.net
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: Fuel tank dimensions

Svein:

  

 It sounds like you are doing almost exactly what I am planning to do.  A little higher and a little narrower. It doesn't give too much extra capacity however.  I was going to use the bottom of the  door sills as my upper limit.  So that gives about 2 inches  or so. One thing I was contemplating on  doing was making a square box section to extend into the  baggage bay just over the  hump in the middle possibly a 10 X 10 X 8 inch volume about 13 liters in addition to raising the lid.

  

 Here are the dimensions  I have in inches: A = 11.00       B = 10.50  C = 15.50  D = 12.00  E = 8.25  Top front = 41.00  Top back = 40.25  Top along seam = 41.125  

  

 Inside saddle back = 7.125  Inside saddle front = 6.75

  

 Steve Hagar

 A143

 Mesa, AZ

 [quote] ---

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:07 pm Post subject: Fuel tank dimensions

Hi Steve,



Suppose that this mightn't be a great idea, but has anyone considered

cutting the top of the seat back area and simply fiber glassing in the

whole area. My aircraft, (LongEze for example) have the tanks made out

of fiberglass.  I bet with a but of care you could expand the capacity

even more.



Just a thought.



Paul

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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:26 pm Post subject: Fuel tank dimensions

Steve,

  

 Thank you very much for measuring the dimensions I asked  for, plus some in addition.  Can you explain where you measured the "inside  saddle back" and "inside saddle front"?

  

 Regarding the square box section extending into the  baggage bay just over the hump in the middle:  I am afraid that this would  reduce the transverse strength of the cockpit module (CM) too much.   Admittedly, much of the forces from the wings' lift and drag are equalized  between them by the cross bar just aft of the CM, but I will not take any risk  here.

  

 Cutting off the CM top and refitting it (at same level or  higher) will not compromise the aircrafts structural strength.  My plan -  if I go ahead with it - would be to lift the top at least 4 inches (probably  more) to maximize the volume, and make the head rests so that the shoulder  belts will go back from my shoulders at an up angle of 35 degrees (ref.  previous discussions the spine compression and European VLA seat belt  rules).

  

 Best regards,

 Svein

   [quote][b]

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: Fuel tank dimensions

I am doing  the same as you suggest Svein, and have allowed for it when building the CM and  the fuel system. Now that the top of the fusealage

 is bonded on,  the top of the seats is coming off and i am lifting it up 110mm, one reason is  to fix the seat belt issue, the other is to

 allow for a  second tank sitting on top of the main tank, total volume is 28 litres, giving  almost 100litres total, it fills from the return line

 on the engine  and is set up to be an independant reserve tank, so any fuel in there has  already been filtered by the main gascolator. and is then

 run through a  second gascolator between the reserve tank and the fuel selector. When the  reserve tank is full it overflows back into the main

 tank. Tank is  1.5mm alloy wrapped in glass using vinyl ester resin, which is what the  glasair's are made from and they run wet wings with no  lining

 (according to  a builder I visited)

  

 craig

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sidsel.svein(at)oslo.onli
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: Fuel tank dimensions

Craig,

  

 That is a very interesting solution, if I understand you  correctly:

  

 - You have the original Europa tank inside the  CM

 - You cut the head rests off

 - On top of the CM you then place the independant reserve  tank

 - On top of this (probably bonded to the CM) comes low  head rests, height adjusted for good angle of the shoulder belts

 - The independant top tank feeds the engine (via suction  side of electric fuel pump), so that if you should experience a crack  in the original tank you still have 28 litres  of fuel

 - Topping off the independant tank by the fuel return is  ingenious - you then avoid dumping unused fuel at the rate of about 9 litres per  hour (that's how much goes through the return line even with the very narrow  orifice in the line) through a cracked original tank

  

 Questions:

 - How will you fill up the top tank before  flight - through the standard filler neck somehow, or through a filler  opening on its top?

 - Wrapping of the alloy tank by vinyl ester resin:  I  assume this is how you will build the extension of the seat back and  the CM back/sides and the new top, plus the new headrests.  Will you  wrap it closely to the alloy tank to add strength, and make this new "box" tight  so that you have an extra barrier in case the alloy tank should spring a leak  somehow (I assume so, since you will use vinyl ester which should stand up  well agains gasoline)?

 - How does vinyl ester bond to the epoxy used in the  original CM structure (I am totally ignorant on this, so I am not implying any  doubt)?

 - Have you done the design of the alloy tank and its fuel  in/out connections yet, and figured out how to make the new headrests,  etc.?

  

 I think your solution is much better than tearing out a  working original tank before it cracks (if it ever does), and would be a nice  winter project (when are we ever declaring our airplanes "completed"?!).   

  

 Best regards,

 Svein

  

 [quote]   ---

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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:10 pm Post subject: Fuel tank dimensions

Svein, yes the wrap of the alloy tank was as you suggested to add a second layer of sealing and make the tank stronger as well. I started

making a totally vinyl ester tank, but had concerns about mounting the

fittings into the tank and getting a good seal. The plan was to allow filling

through the "overflow" from the reserve back into the filler neck above

the main tank inlet, and also if desired the reserve pump could be turned

on during filling, or before, to fill the reserve from the main, as in theory

the main should still have fuel in it. The reserve pump i have will pump

15 litres a minute in free state and up to about 35 psi if restricted which

will fill the reserve quickly either way. 



As for the seats and the headrests etc I reuse the original and glass it back on with a slight reduction in width front to back

to maintain the angles. I dint believe it is possible to get a good bond

between epoxy and vinyl ester resin so I  have i the reserve tank "captive" between the main tank and the seat top. 



Given the reserve tank is long and not very tall, the tank has baffles

to stop the fuel running from side to side if it is less than full.



Its not quite as much fuel as the plug in long range tank Europa sell

but it is close, and it should meet the requirements of only drawing fuel

from one tank at a time that some countries have.

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

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