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RE: fitting gascolator

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mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:41 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



 	  Quote: 	
		   Remarkable in this discussion are the people that keep telling that their

fuel has always been clean. They probably do not need filters or

gascolators at all. Or checklists either. It's always OK eh? They probably

forget that just that one, first incident could kill them. Wrong mentality

in this hobby.

	


Hi Jos,

Could not agree more. It is equally remarkable that so many inexperienced

pilots have such strong opinions on operating a Europa long before they have

built and operated one - don't you agree?

kind regards,

Mike

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



Yes, and there are those out there who install audible warning lights to

tell them if their doors aren't properly latched, or their seatbelts aren't

fully engaged. Probably the same ones who wear elastic waisted pants plus a

belt and two pairs of suspenders. There's a difference between being

reasonably careful, and being neurotic. The latter should probably stay

home watching television in the safety and comfort of their couch.

Kick the tires and light the fires.

jthursby(at)tampabay.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



I guess I'll reply now that this has gotten heated. There are those that

have gotten crud in those filters, and those that will. You CAN NOT clean

the plastic tank out fully after drilling it. Not water or air or gasoline

will dislodge all the swarf. Only time and some aerobatics seem to help

dislodge the junk. If you have flown your plane since new with no crud in

the filters, you are either EXTREMELY lucky or flying on borrowed time. A

914 WILL quit if the filter clogs! I have the four deadstick landings, and

five precautionary landings to prove it! Water can get in the topside

fillers and vents. I have one deadstick from almost three quarts in the

tank to prove THAT. I switched to the reserve side to check flow and it

promptly quit. Switching back to the main side did not help, seems the bing

carbs won't work with just H2O filling the float bowls. You need drains

and a good high flow separator/filter setup. Just make sure to check the

filters often.

Jim T.

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 9:54 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



As usual with this list these things get carried way to far past what

builders need. If anything, you all are simply hurting the new

builder's attitude towards weather he's made a smart purchase in the

Europa. If the filters are not the way to go then would all of you that

have turned to a different direction take it up with Europa! Sounds

like Europa should be selling kits with gascolators instead of filters.

If a builder needs help he should ask the list and hopefully get the

answers needed. More and more I see this forum being used to defend

ones own, or a buddy's opinion or integrity. Remember there people out

here needing encouragement and help and all this arguing does is

discourage the poor sap that laid down $26K for a kit with cheep inline

filters. If they don't serve there intent tell Europa to quit selling

them!

Jeff

A258

Do not archive.

On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:06 AM, James wrote:

I guess I'll reply now that this has gotten heated. There are those

that

have gotten crud in those filters, and those that will. You CAN NOT

clean

the plastic tank out fully after drilling it. Not water or air or

gasoline

will dislodge all the swarf. Only time and some aerobatics seem to help

dislodge the junk. If you have flown your plane since new with no

crud in

the filters, you are either EXTREMELY lucky or flying on borrowed

time. A

914 WILL quit if the filter clogs! I have the four deadstick

landings, and

five precautionary landings to prove it! Water can get in the topside

fillers and vents. I have one deadstick from almost three quarts in

the

tank to prove THAT. I switched to the reserve side to check flow and

it

promptly quit. Switching back to the main side did not help, seems

the bing

carbs won't work with just H2O filling the float bowls. You need

drains

and a good high flow separator/filter setup. Just make sure to check

the

filters often.

Jim T.

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



Good day All,

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



Hi! Mike ... you probably have the message OK except the only way you

could better your suggestion would be a mini gascolator on each line.

However it is all IMHO and I have just the one gascolator in the main

line and the water drain mod and they have together proved to be very

capable in all respects including water to date. (It was my finger

filters and wiper strands of fibre and bad intersection of the drillings

in the tank connectors which caused my forced landing like the wash hand

basin or bath plug hole effect)

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



Hi! Jeff

I always publish IMHO details which I hope will enable others to make

informed judgement against it is secondary that I fully agree with Jim

T.

Europa are selling a product which for them (hopefully) makes an

adequate profit and with it or not goes the personal specification of

additional but non essential mods. A choice which the purchaser can make

to satisfy his particular whim or concern. I'm not sure if the water

drain mod is optional or not but IMHO it is short sighted to not

recognise the potential for sooner or later getting caught out.

I agree the list shouldn't be used to justify "one up manship" but I

don't think it is valid to advocate ignore and rule out others

experiences either.

People who are building are mostly grown up and have their own

perception of what is sound advice and what is not. Damned if I'm going

to attempt to teach Europa to "suck eggs".

IMHO the new builder should be well pleased to have the benefit of not

needing to eventually "re-invent the wheel" and enjoy the said benefits

which the forum provides by the debate it promotes especially so from

those who went before and to date have survived.

No offence ever intended ......unless I clearly say so !

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI /Jabiru 3300

( 600 hours survived and one forced landing even with what I thought

meticulous handing of fuel ....in fact my main crud discovered in the

finger filters was single strands of fibre from the wipers I used to

wipe out jugs etc for filling.)

Do not archive.

bryan(at)blackballclub.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:31 pm Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator

Jeff,

I could not agree with you more. These days I am almost afraid to make any

comment on this site in case someone takes issue with it.

I too am concerned about the negative impact made on Europa's sales when

people persist in putting down the original product to justify their own

preferences.

My personal contribution regarding ants in the fuel was for general

interest. I was able to fly my 'built to the manual' kit plane

safely on it's journey with a backup filter and intelligent use of the fuel

pressure gauge. I do not need others to subtly suggest that I am an idiot

for doing these sorts of things. I have a wife for that!

The standard Europa is a great little ship straight from the box. I love it,

and feel very safe in it. Sure, I am an accident waiting to happen, but

isn't

everyone? Let us not get obsessive about to many negatives. Enjoy the thing

for the purpose for which it was designed. If you want to make it into

something else, fine, but please recognise the wonderful qualities of the

original design for it's purpose.

Regards. Bryan Allsop

From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff(at)rmmm.net>

[quote] As usual with this list these things get carried way to far past what

builders need. If anything, you all are simply hurting the new

builder's attitude towards weather he's made a smart purchase in the

Europa. If the filters are not the way to go then would all of you that

have turned to a different direction take it up with Europa! Sounds

like Europa should be selling kits with gascolators instead of filters.

If a builder needs help he should ask the list and hopefully get the

answers needed. More and more I see this forum being used to defend

ones own, or a buddy's opinion or integrity. Remember there people out

here needing encouragement and help and all this arguing does is

discourage the poor sap that laid down $26K for a kit with cheep inline

filters. If they don't serve there intent tell Europa to quit selling

them!

Jeff

A258

Do not archive.

On Jan 7, 2006, at 11:06 AM, James wrote:

>

> I guess I'll reply now that this has gotten heated. There are those

> that

> have gotten crud in those filters, and those that will. You CAN NOT

> clean

> the plastic tank out fully after drilling it. Not water or air or

> gasoline

> will dislodge all the swarf. Only time and some aerobatics seem to help

> dislodge the junk. If you have flown your plane since new with no

> crud in

> the filters, you are either EXTREMELY lucky or flying on borrowed

> time. A

> 914 WILL quit if the filter clogs! I have the four deadstick

> landings, and

> five precautionary landings to prove it! Water can get in the topside

> fillers and vents. I have one deadstick from almost three quarts in

> the

> tank to prove THAT. I switched to the reserve side to check flow and

> it

> promptly quit. Switching back to the main side did not help, seems

> the bing

> carbs won't work with just H2O filling the float bowls. You need

> drains

> and a good high flow separator/filter setup. Just make sure to check

> the

> filters often.

>

> Jim T.

>

rholder(at)avnet.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:43 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



Bryan said

 	  Quote: 	
		   The standard Europa is a great little ship straight

from the box. I love it, and feel very safe in it.

Sure, I am an accident waiting to happen, but isn't

everyone?

	


I am surprised no-one has picked up on one item in Jeff's

mail.

He talks about $26K for a kit. I assume that is stages 1,

2 & 3 with no firewall forward. The price here in England

is 20,795 GBP and I expect VAT is to be added making it

24,434. (mono)

.

Even without VAT the 20,795 GBP becomes around $35k or

$36k. Yet kits sold in the US have been shipped across the

Atlantic.

So Jeff paid $10k less than a Brit would have even without

adding VAT which would be another $5k.

So were they being sold at a loss in the US (I wonder what

the current quoted US price is) or are we in England being

overcharged ?

I could rant more but it is time to go out 

Richard Holder

From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff(at)rmmm.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		   As usual with this list these things get carried way to

far past what builders need. If anything, you all are

simply hurting the new builder's attitude towards

weather he's made a smart purchase in the Europa. If

the filters are not the way to go then would all of you

that have turned to a different direction take it up

with Europa! Sounds like Europa should be selling kits

with gascolators instead of filters. If a builder needs

help he should ask the list and hopefully get the

answers needed. More and more I see this forum being

used to defend ones own, or a buddy's opinion or

integrity. Remember there people out here needing

encouragement and help and all this arguing does is

discourage the poor sap that laid down $26K for a kit

with cheep inline filters. If they don't serve there

intent tell Europa to quit selling them! Jeff A258 Do

not archive.

M.Grass(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:24 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



Richard,

With the greatest respect, I think you read to much into this loose

statement. The US builder currently bys from Europa 2004 in the UK direct.

This means same pricing. On the other hand, yes that was the price range

when I bought my ship but that was a few years back. I remember the UK

pricelist was much lower then compared to today. Interestingly here in the

US if you buy out of state often you do not pay VAT but they get you later

with the first registration. Anyway, here in the US it is custom to list the

prices before taxes. And as another factor also keep in mind that the US

dollar lost about 30% (loose statement! not exact!) in the last 2-3 years

against the UK Pound. With al this said, I feel now being overcharged here

in the US, but the exchange rate is not the fault of Europa 2004.

Michael Grass

A266 . Trigear, Detroit Michigan

bberube(at)tampabay.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:58 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



The 26k price that Jeff indicated was the kit cost several years ago. The

current pricing is in the area of 38k.

Bob Berube

Do not archive

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



 	  Quote: 	
		  

	


Hi Richard,

Don't worry, Europas are being advertised in the Kit Planes buyers

directory now for $37 to $38K. I paid what I paid 4 years ago and I was

being a little general in the statement. It was around $26 before FWF

and any other extra items.

Jeff

A258

The worst case of flu I ever had is about over! Working on final fit of

the panel and the bird will be going to the airport by next week for

weight & balance and to wait out the inspection time.

 	  Quote: 	
		   I am surprised no-one has picked up on one item in Jeff's

mail.

He talks about $26K for a kit. I assume that is stages 1,

2 & 3 with no firewall forward. The price here in England

is 20,795 GBP and I expect VAT is to be added making it

24,434. (mono)

.

Even without VAT the 20,795 GBP becomes around $35k or

$36k. Yet kits sold in the US have been shipped across the

Atlantic.

So Jeff paid $10k less than a Brit would have even without

adding VAT which would be another $5k.

So were they being sold at a loss in the US (I wonder what

the current quoted US price is) or are we in England being

overcharged ?

I could rant more but it is time to go out 

Richard Holder

From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff(at)rmmm.net>

> As usual with this list these things get carried way to

> far past what builders need. If anything, you all are

> simply hurting the new builder's attitude towards

> weather he's made a smart purchase in the Europa. If

> the filters are not the way to go then would all of you

> that have turned to a different direction take it up

> with Europa! Sounds like Europa should be selling kits

> with gascolators instead of filters. If a builder needs

> help he should ask the list and hopefully get the

> answers needed. More and more I see this forum being

> used to defend ones own, or a buddy's opinion or

> integrity. Remember there people out here needing

> encouragement and help and all this arguing does is

> discourage the poor sap that laid down $26K for a kit

> with cheep inline filters. If they don't serve there

> intent tell Europa to quit selling them! Jeff A258 Do

> not archive.

paul.mcallister(at)qia.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator



 	  Quote: 	
		   The 26k price that Jeff indicated was the kit cost several years ago. The

current pricing is in the area of 38k.

	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Bob Berube

	


And unforutnately at that price Europa 2004 is unlikely to ever sell another

kit in the US, or outside of Europe for that matter.

Paul

do not archive

Gilles.Thesee(at)ac-greno
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: RE: fitting gascolator

Hi Gottfried and all,

[quote]So you will see, that the connection in series is the latest recommendation. This would reduce the fuel-flow trough the pumps and the returning fuel from the pressure regulator by 50%. On the other hand, the series-installation would reduce a lot of the filter problems as well.

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