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Quiet Kolb
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robcannon

Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Location: British Columbia

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

I am making a quiet Kolb  , I hope !  How quiet it will be is yet to be seen (Heard). HKS with stock upward pointed exhaust (apparently meets strict European noise standard) whatever that means, and a four blade 65" powerfin prop.........should be running in a week or so. Any guesses on how quiet it will be?  Rob

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

Any guesses on how quiet it will be?  Rob

 	  Quote: 	
		  


	


Rob:



You might have something there.  What model Kolb is it?



Some folks are chasing low fuel burn, some stealth Kolbs, and the rest of us 

are trying to squeeze all the HP we can out of those little noisy props and 

engines, to have a blast.



Nice thing about building and flying Kolbs, you can build and fly'em like 

you want to.



Thank goodness we don't have to comply with all the noise, and other 

restrictions, our overseas friends have to.  That would take a lot of fun 

out of our sport, here in the States.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jrsmith2(at)triad.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

Very interested in this project... we need to cut noise, its just a matter 

of time until conplaints are filed and we are make to quieten our Kolbs.

---

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

. HKS with stock upward pointed exhaust (apparently meets strict European 

noise standard) whatever that means, >>



Hi Rob,



HKS is reputedly  a pretty quiet engine.



My exhaust are swept forward and point at the sky.



European Standards vary from country to country at the moment we are heading 

for more integration. Germany I think has the most stringent noise levels if 

you can get down to those levels  beware taxying. You can knock over a 

pedestrian without him hearing you coming



Pat. .

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

A few years ago I had a muffler on my Redrive VW. When I took it off to find 

out if I would get more power without it I also found that it made no more 

noise than It did with the muffler on. At least in side the cockpit it is no 

more noisy. I have never heard the noise from out side but I'm told that my 

straight pipe VW sounds considerably better on a over flight (I don't know 

if it is more quiet or just lower pitch) than a muffled Rotax.



My first engine mount used the stock Kolb mount which allowed my redrive VW 

to move around quite a bit and was fairly quiet inside the cockpit. One day 

I even took my head sets off to see if I could fly without them.......I put 

them right back on. When I switched to the new lower custom engine mount the 

inside noise increased quite a bit. I currently fly with MP3 player 

headphones stuck in my ears under my noise canceling aviation headphones.



I have tried stopping the noise with noise reducing foam in the gap seal and 

behind the cockpit with little benefit.



I think the biggest noise source is the prop and engine vibrations. Select a 

prop with the lowest tip speed and use the softest vibration dampers (engine 

Mounts) you can get hold of. Stock Kolb vibration dampers are pretty good 

too bad I can't use them. Of course shorter props will produce less thrust 

and too soft a engine mount may allow the engine to twist out of alignment 

(not a good thing).



My $.02 worth.



Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC



---

robcannon

Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Location: British Columbia

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet Kolb

The airstrip I live at has serious noise rules.  The owners have basically said "no ultralights".   If I annoy the neighbors, I'm out. So.........I am hoping this combo will be quiet. (Kolb Twinstar / hks )

    - as a matter of general interest, the twinstar with the hks, custom fuel tanks, twin facets, gascolator(it all adds up) minimal fairings, weighs 460 lbs.  With a gross weight of 750, it's a one and a half person plane.

And probably better as a single seater.

cheers, Rob

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: Quiet Kolb

It may be quiet.... and slow.   That 4 blade powerfin is waay too  

much prop for the HKS unless

you will be pushing a trike.  What kind of Kolb are you putting it on?



If you pitch it for 5000 engine rpm you will be creeping through the  

sky unless that model is a turbo.

My one liter suzuki makes about what the  680cc HKS ( published) HP  

is at similar engine rpms.



I have run a three blade 65" powerfin on it and got reasonable  

performance but not as long-legged as

my 2 blade 70" WarpDrive.



BB, MKIII

Scottsville, NY



On 26, Jun 2008, at 2:05 PM, robcannon wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I am making a quiet Kolb [Shocked] , I hope !  How quiet it will be  

 is yet to be seen (Heard). HKS with stock upward pointed exhaust  

 (apparently meets strict European noise standard) whatever that  

 means, and a four blade 65" powerfin prop.........should be running  

 in a week or so. Any guesses on how quiet it will be?  Rob





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189936#189936

robcannon

Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Location: British Columbia

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet Kolb

sorry - forgot to mention 3:47 gearbox

Ricochet

Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Quiet Kolb

A good thing about the 4-blade setup is they are likely to be shorter  

with less tip speed, thereby reducing noise.  Howsomever, if there is  

any truth to the idea that two blades cutting across the wing air at  

the same time are noiser, then using only three of the four might be  

quieter still--save the 4th for a backup replacement.  Also, will 4- 

blades interfere with wing folding?



Jerry

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 It may be quiet.... and slow.   That 4 blade powerfin is waay too  

 much prop for the HKS unless

 you will be pushing a trike.  What kind of Kolb are you putting it on?

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: Quiet Kolb

So you figure on turning the prop about 1800.



I was turning my three blade 65" powerfin about 2100.  They have a  

broad thrust producing

chord so it might work for you at the lower RPM.  Keep us posted.

BB



On 26, Jun 2008, at 5:53 PM, robcannon wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 sorry - forgot to mention 3:47 gearbox





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=189970#189970

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet Kolb

robcannon 	  Quote: 	
		  sorry - forgot to mention 3:47 gearbox 	




Did you guys know that if you make a mistake that it can be corrected after the post is submitted with the "edit" button to the right. It will go back into your post and you can make the correction without having to make a new post. To see the "edit" button, you must be signed in (I added this last line after submitting).



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Quiet Kolb

I don't see an "edit button", never have

What am I missing?

do not archive



On Jun 26, 2008, at 8:22 PM, Ralph B wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 robcannon

> sorry - forgot to mention 3:47 gearbox

 Did you guys know that if you make a mistake that it can be  

 corrected after the post is submitted with the "edit" button to the  

 right. It will go back into your post and you can make the  

 correction without having to make a new post.



 Ralph



 --------

 Ralph B

 Original Firestar 447

 N91493 E-AB

 21 years flying it

 Kolbra 912UL

 N20386

 0 years flying it





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190001#190001

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: Quiet Kolb

it's not in the email version.

BB



On 26, Jun 2008, at 9:30 PM, Russ Kinne wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I don't see an "edit button", never have

 What am I missing?

 do not archive



 On Jun 26, 2008, at 8:22 PM, Ralph B wrote:



> 

>

> robcannon

>> sorry - forgot to mention 3:47 gearbox

> Did you guys know that if you make a mistake that it can be  

> corrected after the post is submitted with the "edit" button to  

> the right. It will go back into your post and you can make the  

> correction without having to make a new post.

>

> Ralph

>

> --------

> Ralph B

> Original Firestar 447

> N91493 E-AB

> 21 years flying it

> Kolbra 912UL

> N20386

> 0 years flying it

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190001#190001

>

>

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: Quiet Kolb

BB Thanx for educating a cyberdunce!

do not archive



On Jun 26, 2008, at 10:08 PM, robert bean wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 it's not in the email version.

 BB



 On 26, Jun 2008, at 9:30 PM, Russ Kinne wrote:



> 

>

> I don't see an "edit button", never have

> What am I missing?

> do not archive

>

> On Jun 26, 2008, at 8:22 PM, Ralph B wrote:

>

>> 

>>

>> robcannon

>>> sorry - forgot to mention 3:47 gearbox

>>

>>

>> Did you guys know that if you make a mistake that it can be  

>> corrected after the post is submitted with the "edit" button to  

>> the right. It will go back into your post and you can make the  

>> correction without having to make a new post.

>>

>> Ralph

>>

>> --------

>> Ralph B

>> Original Firestar 447

>> N91493 E-AB

>> 21 years flying it

>> Kolbra 912UL

>> N20386

>> 0 years flying it

>>

>>

>>

>>

>> Read this topic online here:

>>

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=190001#190001

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet Kolb

I like my Kolb loud...let's me know she's running.  It's when she gets quiet that gets me a little anxious.  Haven't heard any noise complaints here (yet anyways).  Guess the prisoners and guards right next to the airport have gotten used to it (who ever had the "brilliant" idea of building a prison right next to an airport I'll never know).  



Was a beautiful evening for flying.  Got down just before sunset.  Change of gear box oil seemed to do it some good.  Whoever changed it last had filled it up too much.

Sunset at KAYS 2008-06-26.jpg

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_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 10:06 PM, cristalclear13

<cristalclearwaters(at)juno.com> wrote:

(who ever had the "brilliant" idea of building a prison right next to

an airport I'll never know).



Cristal --



In 2003, I flew into an airport at Newport, Arkansas.  Apparently, it

was at one time an Air Force base, so it was very large. Even the

shortest of its three runways is long enough for me to takeoff and

land on about three or four times. But the oddest feature is, on the

approach to runway 04, there is a prison. I don't mean it's close by,

I mean it's on the approach! I decided not to fly over it directly,

but that means I'm approaching my touch-down spot at a 45-degree

angle, so I had to make a fairly sharp turn to line up with the runway

once I was clear of the prison.



  -- Robert



http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=101773101841869726868.000450a5d63f109a051a0&ll=35.634279,-91.185665&spn=0.039205,0.063171&z=14

_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Quiet Kolb

Theres a prison here in Santa Fe, about 4NM to the SE. In fact, it's a very commonly used waypoint for position reports to the tower. 

The worst part is it looks very much like the airport at night and many of the locals report approaching to land at the prison, mistaking it for the airport until the last minute.



I never took the FS II over it and avoid it even in the titan. I wouldn't want to put down anywhere near it.



As for a quiet Kolb, mine had the 3.47:1 C box cranking a 68" 3 blade warp drive. It was a fair bit quieter than my friend's FSII back in TX. He ran the 2.58:1 b box spinning a TPI woodie.



I have used the Rotax aftermuffler and intake silencers. They do a surprisingly good job of hushing up the motor. I'd have loved to have tried them on my FSII.



As for the 912, not much choice unless you can somehow fit a can muffler on top of the engine. Mine is louder than my 2-stroke ever was by far. The locals can hear me approaching the airport even while I'm still outside the class D......



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

FWIW, from  what I've seen, sometimes the prison  was there first,  

and sometimes the airport was first. But all prisons are leery of  

aircraft flying overhead, lest some idiot pilot drop knives, guns, or  

a gross of razor blades in the prison .

Good idea not to overfly any of them

Looks like plenty of room to avoid the prison  & turn a short final.

do not archive

On Jun 27, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Robert Laird wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 10:06 PM, cristalclear13

 <cristalclearwaters(at)juno.com> wrote:

 (who ever had the "brilliant" idea of building a prison right next to

 an airport I'll never know).



 Cristal --



 In 2003, I flew into an airport at Newport, Arkansas.  Apparently, it

 was at one time an Air Force base, so it was very large. Even the

 shortest of its three runways is long enough for me to takeoff and

 land on about three or four times. But the oddest feature is, on the

 approach to runway 04, there is a prison. I don't mean it's close by,

 I mean it's on the approach! I decided not to fly over it directly,

 but that means I'm approaching my touch-down spot at a 45-degree

 angle, so I had to make a fairly sharp turn to line up with the runway

 once I was clear of the prison.



   -- Robert



 http://maps.google.com/maps/ms? 

 f=q&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&t=h&msa=0&msid=101773101841869726868.000450 

 a5d63f109a051a0&ll=35.634279,-91.185665&spn=0.039205,0.063171&z=14

gaman(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: Quiet Kolb

Cristal,

   The evenings are nice but morning is my favorite.



---

CIMG1801.JPG

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cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Quiet Kolb

 	  rlaird wrote: 	
		  But the oddest feature is, on the

approach to runway 04, there is a prison. I don't mean it's close by,

I mean it's on the approach! I decided not to fly over it directly,

but that means I'm approaching my touch-down spot at a 45-degree

angle, so I had to make a fairly sharp turn to line up with the runway

once I was clear of the prison.



  -- Robert



	




That's similar to ours.  I almost have to fly over it on a left pattern to rwy 18.  



http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Ware+County+Prison&sll=31.256322,-82.400723&sspn=0.033164,0.052872&ie=UTF8&ll=31.264832,-82.39892&spn=0.033161,0.052872&t=h&z=14&msa=0&msid=101773101841869726868.000450a5d63f109a051a0&iwloc=B

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

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