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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

 My leading edge is showing signs of very slight pitting, but I attribute  

 this to mostly the sandy dirt conditions that you get on some grass  

 strips.


	


Thanks, Lynn. My Jabiru propeller has a rubbery stuff on the leading edge. It can hardly be pitted. Do you also reduce RPM in the rain?



You also wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'll try again, Deke. I figured it wasn't Mac compatible.......


	


It is Mac compatible, Lynn. I see it very well with Safari.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Is your leading edge the yellow transparent stuff? I can make a mark  

with a fingernail, and it is gone within seconds...probably the same  

stuff. I do reduce RPM in the rain, but haven't really made a  

conscience effort to maintain a certain RPM....I probably run it  

about 2400.

Now when you say your "Jabiru propellor" you really mean Sensenich  

propellor, right, Michel? I was pretty sure that's what you had, if I  

recall correctly. Not pickin' nits, just wanting to clarify, because  

some of the Jabiru-made props were made with really soft wood as I  

recall. From what I heard, they made some props from some funky wood  

from Aussie land, and it wasn't very good "for children and other  

living things." It seems like this was the wood that was too soft to  

hold the bolt torques, but I might be wrong.

I've downloaded the site, complete with title, background clouds, and  

a green "progress bar" but nothing I do with the mouse (single button  

mouse) has any effect....this is on Safari 2.0.3.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/547+ hrs

On Jul 22, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> My leading edge is showing signs of very slight pitting, but I  

> attribute

> this to mostly the sandy dirt conditions that you get on some grass

> strips.

 Thanks, Lynn. My Jabiru propeller has a rubbery stuff on the  

 leading edge. It can hardly be pitted. Do you also reduce RPM in  

 the rain?

 You also wrote:

> I'll try again, Deke. I figured it wasn't Mac compatible.......

 It is Mac compatible, Lynn. I see it very well with Safari.

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:14 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

I just tried again. This time I shut the Mac down and restarted, then  

went to Safari and reset Safari, after noting the warning:  

"......erases your browsing history, empties the cache, clears the  

Downloads window, and removes cookies."  (probably renders me  

sterile, infests my house with vermin, causes warts, informs the CIA,  

the IRS, the FAA, and others about my secret habits...etc)...but  

still nothing. This time the progress bar took about 5 minutes to  

fill with green, but nothing beyond that. I'll mail it to a buddy of  

mine and see what his IBM clone will do with it.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/547+ hrs

do not archive



On Jul 22, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  > I'll try again, Deke. I figured it wasn't Mac compatible.......



 It is Mac compatible, Lynn. I see it very well with Safari.



 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">



 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>



 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Thanks Jeff. The thing is; I don't see how I can get pit on that soft rubbery stuff I have on my leading edge.



 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net] 

 Is your leading edge the yellow transparent stuff?

Negative, Sir. It's black and it is the original Jabiru prop. When I bought the engine, my dealer said that it was probably the safest prop because it was extensively tested by Jabiru.
	


.. but the Sensenich looks much better.



 	  Quote: 	
		   ....I probably run it  about 2400.


	


Yep, that's also my RPM if it rains or very turbulent.



 	  Quote: 	
		    From what I heard, they made some props from some funky wood  

 from Aussie land, and it wasn't very good "for children and other  

 living things." 


	


Gosh, I hope mine is made of ... good wood.



 	  Quote: 	
		    seems like this was the wood that was too soft to  

 hold the bolt torques, but I might be wrong.


	


My bolts haven't moved a fart since I installed the prop. I guess the belleville washers are doing a good job.



 	  Quote: 	
		   ....this is on Safari 2.0.3.


	


On my Mac, it works well on Safari 1.3.2 ... yeah, I know it shows my age, doesn't it?  Just wondering, can't you see if you don't new a newer version of Java?

I am pretty sure that stuff runs on Java.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Michel-

Your bolts may not have moved, but how is the torque on them? That's  

the important measure. If the humidity goes down, the wood shrinks,  

and the bolts aren't clamping the prop and hub together with as much  

force. Sensenich has specific instructions about how much torque to  

apply, and how often to check the bolts, citing too much can crush  

the wood fibers and allow moisture into the prop, while not enough  

can allow the face of the prop-to-drive flange to slip, however  

slight due to the "drive bushings" that don't really drive the prop.  

(that one is hard for me to believe) Have you got the stack of  

belleville washers noted in the "alternate prop attaching" method  

bulletin?  I think it uses about 4 washers per bolt? I believe that  

was to provide for the expanding and shrinking of the prop wood that  

the Jabiru-made props were made from. Again, just my recollection of  

what I read.

The Sensenich has also been tested, and it was the one that  

came....well, six weeks later, after Sensenich got done with a  

military prop order....with my engine. I recall that you got your  

engine a few months before I got mine (mine came in August of 2005),  

so maybe the technology changed over those months.

I'll check Java and see how old it is. A newer version of Safari... 

3....is waiting in the wings, but that doesn't seem to be my problem  

with the "oyster" thing.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/547+ hrs

On Jul 22, 2008, at 12:25 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks Jeff. The thing is; I don't see how I can get pit on that  

 soft rubbery stuff I have on my leading edge.

> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> Is your leading edge the yellow transparent stuff?

 Negative, Sir. It's black and it is the original Jabiru prop. When  

 I bought the engine, my dealer said that it was probably the safest  

 prop because it was extensively tested by Jabiru.

 ... but the Sensenich looks much better.

> ....I probably run it  about 2400.

 Yep, that's also my RPM if it rains or very turbulent.

>  From what I heard, they made some props from some funky wood

> from Aussie land, and it wasn't very good "for children and other

> living things."

 Gosh, I hope mine is made of ... good wood.

>  seems like this was the wood that was too soft to

> hold the bolt torques, but I might be wrong.

 My bolts haven't moved a fart since I installed the prop. I guess  

 the belleville washers are doing a good job.

> ....this is on Safari 2.0.3.

 On my Mac, it works well on Safari 1.3.2 ... yeah, I know it shows  

 my age, doesn't it?  Just wondering, can't you see if you don't  

 new a newer version of Java?

 I am pretty sure that stuff runs on Java.

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Lynn,



Your note brought me to boot up the G5 and see if I could veiw the site ion 

it.  I have Safari 3.1.2 and it plays fine.  One thing I notice, though, 

with the Mac, the virtual airplane banks toward the cursor and with the PC 

the controls are reversed.  Need to check the rigging, I guess.



Lowell



---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Hi Lowell-

I think I'll do the upgrade to the version 3 for Safari tonight, when  

the birds have gone to bed and not sitting on the telephone wires,  

slowing things down. : )  Maybe there's a Java update in there as well.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/547+ hrs

do not archive



On Jul 22, 2008, at 12:53 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:



[quote] 

 <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>



 Lynn,



 Your note brought me to boot up the G5 and see if I could veiw the  

 site ion it.  I have Safari 3.1.2 and it plays fine.  One thing I  

 notice, though, with the Mac, the virtual airplane banks toward the  

 cursor and with the PC the controls are reversed.  Need to check  

 the rigging, I guess.



 Lowell



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

steve.didier(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: Flying in the rain

I also run Mac (iMac duocore and TiPowerbook) and the program runs  

fine on Firefox, Flock, Omniweb and Camino haven't tried it on Safari  

'cause i hardly ever run it. Looks a lot like parts of Idaho in the  

winter!

SteveD

On Jul 22, 2008, at 8:32 AM, Lynn Matteson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Is your leading edge the yellow transparent stuff? I can make a mark  

 with a fingernail, and it is gone within seconds...probably the same  

 stuff. I do reduce RPM in the rain, but haven't really made a  

 conscience effort to maintain a certain RPM....I probably run it  

 about 2400.



 Now when you say your "Jabiru propellor" you really mean Sensenich  

 propellor, right, Michel? I was pretty sure that's what you had, if  

 I recall correctly. Not pickin' nits, just wanting to clarify,  

 because some of the Jabiru-made props were made with really soft  

 wood as I recall. From what I heard, they made some props from some  

 funky wood from Aussie land, and it wasn't very good "for children  

 and other living things." It seems like this was the wood that was  

 too soft to hold the bolt torques, but I might be wrong.



 I've downloaded the site, complete with title, background clouds,  

 and a green "progress bar" but nothing I do with the mouse (single  

 button mouse) has any effect....this is on Safari 2.0.3.



 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster

 Jabiru 2200

 Status: flying w/547+ hrs





 On Jul 22, 2008, at 8:52 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:



>> From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

>> My leading edge is showing signs of very slight pitting, but I  

>> attribute

>> this to mostly the sandy dirt conditions that you get on some grass

>> strips.

>

> Thanks, Lynn. My Jabiru propeller has a rubbery stuff on the  

> leading edge. It can hardly be pitted. Do you also reduce RPM in  

> the rain?

>

> You also wrote:

>> I'll try again, Deke. I figured it wasn't Mac compatible.......

>

> It is Mac compatible, Lynn. I see it very well with Safari.

>

> Cheers,

> Michel Verheughe

> Norway

> Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

>

> <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

>

> List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

> forums.matronics.com</a>

> www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

>

> </b></font></pre>

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

 Your bolts may not have moved, but how is the torque on them?


	


I check that at each annual, Lynn. Here is what I figure: I installed my engine during the Norwegian winter. My annual is also coming in February. It is better to test the torque when the climatic conditions are the same. Does it make sense?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 2:59 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Depending on your changes of humidity, Michel, that might not be  

often enough. Here in Michigan, we get high humidity in the summer,  

and low in winter. I try to do mine every other oil change (30-hour  

changes), so I do it every 60 hours or so.

  I have a info sheet from Sensenich that warns about seasonal  

changes in wood props. In very bold letters at the bottom of the  

sheet it states: REMEMBER.....CHECK YOUR BOLT TORQUE EVERY 50 HOURS  

OR CHANGE OF SEASONS!

Part of the info sheet says:  "Your wood propellor is a living,  

breathing peice of wood that will change dimensionally over time and  

with temperature and humidity. A one percent decrease in moisture  

content of the wood will cause a 3-1/2" hub to shrink by .011".

If I were you, Michel, I'd go to the Sensenich web site at       

www.sensenichprop.com   and  look for "Care and feeding of wood  

propellors" It's a pdf download of 4 pages. Also, if you search  

around, you'll find info about the new composite ground-adjustable  

prop for Jabiru and Rotax that is in flight testing. I'm gonna talk  

to Pete (USJabiru) at Oshkosh about using this prop on my engine when  

it is released. I'll be hounding the Sensenich folks, too.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/547+ hrs

On Jul 23, 2008, at 6:23 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> Your bolts may not have moved, but how is the torque on them?

 I check that at each annual, Lynn. Here is what I figure: I  

 installed my engine during the Norwegian winter. My annual is also  

 coming in February. It is better to test the torque when the  

 climatic conditions are the same. Does it make sense?

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:35 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net] 

 Depending on your changes of humidity, Michel, that might not be  

 often enough.


	


Yes Lynn but my idea is this: Summer = humid and winter = dry. If I install the prop in the winter, it is dry, the wood is slack. If I then measure in the summer, it can only be tighter and I won't notice any difference when I test torque. Right?



I will download the Sensenich document, though: always nice to have something to read when my wife has a headache! 



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:23 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

You might test and find tighter torque, in which case the wood will  

have expanded and gotten fatter around the drive plate. I'm using my  

imagination here to try to read into what is on the printed page. I'm  

thinking that this would be the same as tightening it too much in the  

first place. The caution against this is that the fibers are crushed,  

breaking the bond with the sprayed on sealer, and this lets the  

moisture get in. I'd get with your Jabiru dealer and see what he and  

aircraft mechanics, preferably the older (wood prop era) ones, think  

of this reasoning. I'm just regurgitating what I've read from Sensenich.

Oh, another thing....I found some notes that I made while talking to  

Pete (I think it was) regarding the Jabiru-made props. I wrote  

down..."Jabiru props made from shoop pine...soft".  Now I'm reading  

this 6 months after I wrote it down, so all bets are off as to  

accuracy of info and spelling of "shoop pine" but it's as I recall, a  

soft wood found in Australia. Now I may be full of crap on this, but  

it's what I wrote down. I just googled "shoop pine" and there were  

49,700 hits and it's amazing how many of the hits combined the words  

"shoop" and "pine"  I quit when my eyes started to glaze over....

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/547+ hrs

do not archive

On Jul 23, 2008, at 7:30 AM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> Depending on your changes of humidity, Michel, that might not be

> often enough.

 Yes Lynn but my idea is this: Summer = humid and winter = dry. If I  

 install the prop in the winter, it is dry, the wood is slack. If I  

 then measure in the summer, it can only be tighter and I won't  

 notice any difference when I test torque. Right?

 I will download the Sensenich document, though: always nice to have  

 something to read when my wife has a headache! 

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:57 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

Michel:



Remember that when the temperature warms up the bolts can elongate and can

become loose.  As we all fly at some altitude where it's colder it's my

guess that the best thing to do is to torque the bolts when everything is

around 20 C.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:17 pm Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]

 Remember that when the temperature warms up the bolts can elongate and can

 become loose.


	


Gosh, Noel and Lynn, are you trying to make scare the hell out of me? 

Okay, I know that wood, metal and ... some parts of my body are longer when it is warm ... but what can I do?

Should I check the prop bolts at each pre-flight? When I test the bolts, should I first unscrew them, then tight them to the right torque? Because they are either too tight or not enough. If they are too tight, then the only way to fix it is to slack them first, right?



Now, I haven't been flying a lot but I sailed a lot. I know that when I start a new long distance sailing, whatever I have screwed need to be checked. So, I do that ... for a week. Anything that withstand the constant motion of the vessel more than a week is going to remain tight until the end of time (22 Dec 2012, if you believe the latest doomsday prophety 



Anyway, my bolts haven't moved since I installed the engine and apart from checking the torque one a year ... I don't feel very much like fixing something that seems to work ... or, should I?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

n85ae

Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Flying in the rain

I retorque mine every 50 hours, or when we get a major seasonal change

for example where it has been very humid for a while, then becomes very

dry, or the other. Actually after the wood settles down over a couple years 

I think it stays pretty tight. Mostly when the wood initially compresses

you get some looseness.



Jeff

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Flying in the rain

Ya got me there, Michel. When I worked as a driver/mechanic for  

Chrysler Corp., we would always check torque in the tightening  

direction. If it checked out at at least the approved torque, we'd  

leave it alone. But working with wood, and given the fear that they  

strike into our hearts with the "too loose is a problem" and "too  

tight is a problem" I check in the tightening direction, and if too  

tight (prop is filled with water...just kidding) I loosen and re- 

tighten to the torque specs (120-140 inch-pounds over on this side of  

the big pond) If too loose, I just torque to the above specs.

I personally feel that each flight is too often. I would have to  

remove the spinner from mine before checking, and that would take a  

few minutes. The humidity here stays pretty even for long periods, so  

my routine of every 60 hours or so, suits me just fine.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/550+ hrs

On Jul 24, 2008, at 4:14 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Noel Loveys [noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]

> Remember that when the temperature warms up the bolts can elongate  

> and can

> become loose.

 Gosh, Noel and Lynn, are you trying to make scare the hell out of  

 me? 

 Okay, I know that wood, metal and ... some parts of my body are  

 longer when it is warm ... but what can I do?

 Should I check the prop bolts at each pre-flight? When I test the  

 bolts, should I first unscrew them, then tight them to the right  

 torque? Because they are either too tight or not enough. If they  

 are too tight, then the only way to fix it is to slack them first,  

 right?

 Now, I haven't been flying a lot but I sailed a lot. I know that  

 when I start a new long distance sailing, whatever I have screwed  

 need to be checked. So, I do that ... for a week. Anything that  

 withstand the constant motion of the vessel more than a week is  

 going to remain tight until the end of time (22 Dec 2012, if you  

 believe the latest doomsday prophety 

 Anyway, my bolts haven't moved since I installed the engine and  

 apart from checking the torque one a year ... I don't feel very  

 much like fixing something that seems to work ... or, should I?

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 <pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

 </b></font></pre>

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: n85ae [n85ae(at)yahoo.com]

 I retorque mine every 50 hours


	


When you do that, Jeff, do you loosen first the bolt or do you just check with the torque wrench as we do for the cylinder head bolts?



Another thing I wanted to ask about  rain: How are you, guys, handling it? I mean, say that the WX is for rain showers. Do you take a chance to fly then if you meet a shower, you fly around it? What kind of rain intensity makes you do a 180 and go home? Apart from loosing sight, what can rain be a problem for? How does it affect an air-cooled engine like the Jabiru? Is there any danger for the thin lexan windscreen?



The reason I ask is that, lately, I have cancelled a few trips because the weather was uncertain. Now, I'd like to know if I should be a bit bolder in my fly / no-fly decisions.



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: Flying in the rain

Weather is something I have lots of experience in, none in a Kitfox, but lots of weather experience in both light and heavy aircraft and everything in between.  I will do my best to answer your questions as they would apply to light airplane like a Cessna 152.



If the rain is so heavy that you cannot see through it, stay out.  This indicates a thunderstorm most of the time, the good part is that it usually is pretty easy to get around a thunderstorm, unless they are in a frontal system, at which point you should be on the ground.  Never risk getting into a thunderstorm, even if you do manage to keep control of the plane in such a storm, the turbulence can easily be enough to rip a small aircraft apart !  Thunderstorms form and change very rapidly, if you make your 180 to late, what had been clear behind you may be closed off.  You should have the highest respect for thunderstorms, they are deadly.



Flying through areas of small and medium rain showers is no probem, it is very easy to get around them.  Just make darn sure they are not building into thunderstorms while you are flying  !  



The rain wont hurt the window at all, or even the airframe.  The concern with the engine is that if the rain is very heavy, it can get your air filter wet and actually drown the engine if you do not have alternate air.  I don't know how the intake / air filter is setup on the Jabiru,  so I can not tell you if it would be a problem to your installation or not.  In an experimental aircraft, I would worry about the ignition system getting wet in very heavy rain until I had it well tested by actually flying in heavy rain.



I fly a warp drive prop with nickel leading edges, I could fly that prop through a hurricane and it would not damage it a bit  



Be cautious with the weather, if you are not comfortable with it, you should just wait.  There is nothing worse to be in weather wishing you were on the ground.   Don't risk going IFR, there are so many cases where guys get in above their heads and accidentally enter IFR, not ready for it, and end up dead...



If you do start exploring the weather, make sure you have an artificial horizon and that you can fly by it well, in turbulence.  Summer time clouds are very rough, you need to be able to do a 180 if you accidentally get into something, and it will most likely be very rough.



Thats about it, be careful, because playing with weather is life and death, I would rather turn back 100 times rather than go once into something that would be beyond my skill level or my aircrafts limits.



Mike

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"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:16 pm Post subject: Flying in the rain

At 02:26 PM 7/24/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Do you take a chance to fly then if you meet a shower, you fly 

around it? What kind of rain intensity makes you do a 180 and go 

home? Apart from loosing sight, what can rain be a problem for? How 

does it affect an air-cooled engine like the Jabiru? Is there any 

danger for the thin lexan windscreen?


	


1. I try to fly around.

2. If it looks VERY NARROW I'll fly through. I'm very careful, 

though, to make sure the clouds are broken in the area because I 

can't handle IFR. (No instrumentation.)

3. If I got blocked in, I would do an emergency landing. (No IFR.)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: Flying in the rain

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

 I check in the tightening direction, and if too  

 tight I loosen and re-tighten to the torque specs


	


This is where I don't follow, Lynn. How do you know they are too tight if you don't try to loosen them first?



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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