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kearney(at)shaw.ca
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 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:54 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever
[quote][b]
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coop85(at)cableone.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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Les,
I just used the C frame and hammered them in with pretty good success.
Marcus
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 6:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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Buck those rivets. An easy way is to use your back rivet plate. Hold the rod such that the rivet is vertical, machined head up and rivet end (what will be the manufactured head) on the back rivet plate.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (450 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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Hmm
This may be the one time I wish I had a C-Frame. I use the DTRT-2 so that is not an option. I wonder if I should have used my rivet gun instead. Now that I have some scrap, I think I will try that as well.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper
Sent: July-19-08 6:08 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Les,
I just used the C frame and hammered them in with pretty good success.
Marcus
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 6:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
| Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
01234567890123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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n212pj(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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Les, are the rivets trying to tell you something? JC would wonder if they were too long to begin with. Many rivets called out in the plans are either too short or too long. Up to us to determine proper size. Rivet cutters are cheap.
Just musing.
John J
[quote] From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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Carl
Now that makes sense! I’ll give it a go and see what happens.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl Froehlich
Sent: July-19-08 6:20 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Buck those rivets. An easy way is to use your back rivet plate. Hold the rod such that the rivet is vertical, machined head up and rivet end (what will be the manufactured head) on the back rivet plate.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (450 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
| Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
01234567890123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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I have a Cherry Max depth gauge for you which is used to size the grip measurement and confirm correct rivet length for any job. I will send you one if you send me your address.
John J. is correct, in many locations the AN bolt, fastener or rivet is incorrect on the company plans. By the time you are out of parts, you will be able to read the correct length and make certain they comply with the guidelines of the AC 43.13. If your DAR is any good, he might point out the error of the lengths during the paperwork review (oh yeh, Canadians don't use DARs). Boy is Rob's new prop exciting.
Scrapes, bruises and torn knuckles getting the Warbird ready for the flight next week. Aurora to Missoula to Glendive, MT (on Thursday) then West Bend, WI (on Friday) with final arrival at the big one (on Sunday). Bringing a few cases of cold ones for Tim and Bob, Mike and the stakeout gang.
Without an address, I will bring the gauge direct to RV Central at OSH. There is nothing like a Wisconsin summer.
John C.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 5:38 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Les, are the rivets trying to tell you something? JC would wonder if they were too long to begin with. Many rivets called out in the plans are either too short or too long. Up to us to determine proper size. Rivet cutters are cheap.
Just musing.
John J [quote]
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:18 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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John
Rivets have been telling me things for a long time. Usually something along the lines of “why are you building an a/c?”. Actually, I think that a squeezer was the wrong tool for the job. I like the back rivet option suggested by Carl. I am going to try it out tomorrow.
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: July-19-08 6:38 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Les, are the rivets trying to tell you something? JC would wonder if they were too long to begin with. Many rivets called out in the plans are either too short or too long. Up to us to determine proper size. Rivet cutters are cheap.
Just musing.
John J | Quote: |
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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John
I’ll see you at Whitman…
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cox
Sent: July-19-08 7:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
I have a Cherry Max depth gauge for you which is used to size the grip measurement and confirm correct rivet length for any job. I will send you one if you send me your address.
John J. is correct, in many locations the AN bolt, fastener or rivet is incorrect on the company plans. By the time you are out of parts, you will be able to read the correct length and make certain they comply with the guidelines of the AC 43.13. If your DAR is any good, he might point out the error of the lengths during the paperwork review (oh yeh, Canadians don't use DARs). Boy is Rob's new prop exciting.
Scrapes, bruises and torn knuckles getting the Warbird ready for the flight next week. Aurora to Missoula to Glendive, MT (on Thursday) then West Bend, WI (on Friday) with final arrival at the big one (on Sunday). Bringing a few cases of cold ones for Tim and Bob, Mike and the stakeout gang.
Without an address, I will bring the gauge direct to RV Central at OSH. There is nothing like a Wisconsin summer.
John C.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Jessen
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 5:38 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Les, are the rivets trying to tell you something? JC would wonder if they were too long to begin with. Many rivets called out in the plans are either too short or too long. Up to us to determine proper size. Rivet cutters are cheap.
Just musing.
John J | Quote: |
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 7:49 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Hi
It seems like in every major section of the -10 construction, I hit something that causes me no end of grief. This time it is the rod ends for wings. After trashing one set due to a measurement error (duh!), I made another perfect set after getting replacement tubes from Van’s. This time when riveting with the AN470AD4-11 rivets, the rivets seemed to slump to one side. How does one squeeze these rivets without slumping? Part of the problem may be the size of the rivets I am trying to squeeze – the -11 rivets are just a bit to long for my pneumatic squeezer jaws so I have to work at getting them to come down. I also wonder if the hollow tube affects how the rivets squeeze.
Is there some magic trick I am missing?
Inquiring minds need to know…
Les Kearney
#40643 – QB wings, fuse, electrical whatever http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
| Quote: | | http://forums.matronics.com |
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/contribution |
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
01234567890
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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daveleikam(at)wi.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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I experienced the same problem on the same parts. I held the rod with the rivet, shop side down squarely over the flat anvil of my bench vise and used my rivet gun with the proper set. Go slow. Worked well. Squeezer didn't. I think the problem is that the rod is hollow and does not support the rivet shank inside.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
[quote] ---
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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Dave
I am glad that I am not the only one who has had the same problem. Misery loves company as the saying goes.
Knowing that I am going to call the House of Van’s for more parts tomorrow, I decided to do a little experimenting. I will pas this on so others can learn from my mistakes.
- Riveting tubes can be a b^&ch
- When drilling the holes in the tube, it is important to go down the exact centerline of the tube. Being even a little off center will cause problems with riveting (slumping). If even slightly off center, the rivet head will conform to the radius of the tube and you will then be riveting off center.
- Drilling a pilot all the way through then re-drilling with the rod end installed can cause the bottom hole to be a bit off center (elongated) if not drilled exactly down the centerline. (Dos anyone have any ideas why Van’s calls for pilots first and then final drilling through the rod ends? It seems like this makes the whole process a bit riskier).
- I found that installing the rod ends could be deceptively difficult. What I did on my “test” pieces was:
- install the first rod end (which was very tight)
- drilled a pilot through the whole assembly
- drilled the final #30 hole through the whole assembly
- cleaned out the chips in the tube and deburred the exterior holes
- back riveted the end on (as suggested by Carl & Dave)
- repeated for the next hole
- primed the interior of the tube
- Installed the second rod end and drilled as above
- Deburred and riveted
- I would have liked to deburr the interior side of rod end holes but they were just too tight to get off without damaging the assembly. Anyway, I can’t see how the interior burrs and chips would be a factor (is this a reasonable assumption?).
Dave’s comment about going slow is absolutely essential. A series of very light tabs is all that is required. To fast and you will be adding to your scrap bin. Drilling out slumped rivets was beyond my ability.
In retrospect, I think a second set of eyes to help keep things square would be very useful. I was working solo which was probably part of my problem as parts orientation is critical when drilling and riveting a tube.
Comments on the above would be appreciated as it will be a while before I get my replacement parts.
BTW, anybody need some slightly undersized rod end tubing?
Cheers
Les
#40643 – happily turning parts into scrap
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: July-20-08 8:15 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
I experienced the same problem on the same parts. I held the rod with the rivet, shop side down squarely over the flat anvil of my bench vise and used my rivet gun with the proper set. Go slow. Worked well. Squeezer didn't. I think the problem [i]is[/i] that the rod is hollow and does not support the rivet shank inside.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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carl.froehlich(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:40 am Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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One comment, always drill round tubes and such with a drill press and a tube holder. I made a tube holder out of a piece of 2”x6”, making two 45 degree cuts to make a ‘V’ using a radial arm saw. The tube sits in the ‘V’. I added a couple of bolts to hold the jig onto the drill press so that the drill bit was in the exact center of the ‘V’. You can buy an aluminum one from Harbor freight cheap enough as well.
Be careful not to put too much pressure on the drill bit or it will wander off center.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (450 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:17 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Dave
I am glad that I am not the only one who has had the same problem. Misery loves company as the saying goes.
Knowing that I am going to call the House of Van’s for more parts tomorrow, I decided to do a little experimenting. I will pas this on so others can learn from my mistakes.
- Riveting tubes can be a b^&ch
- When drilling the holes in the tube, it is important to go down the exact centerline of the tube. Being even a little off center will cause problems with riveting (slumping). If even slightly off center, the rivet head will conform to the radius of the tube and you will then be riveting off center.
- Drilling a pilot all the way through then re-drilling with the rod end installed can cause the bottom hole to be a bit off center (elongated) if not drilled exactly down the centerline. (Dos anyone have any ideas why Van’s calls for pilots first and then final drilling through the rod ends? It seems like this makes the whole process a bit riskier).
- I found that installing the rod ends could be deceptively difficult. What I did on my “test” pieces was:
- install the first rod end (which was very tight)
- drilled a pilot through the whole assembly
- drilled the final #30 hole through the whole assembly
- cleaned out the chips in the tube and deburred the exterior holes
- back riveted the end on (as suggested by Carl & Dave)
- repeated for the next hole
- primed the interior of the tube
- Installed the second rod end and drilled as above
- Deburred and riveted
- I would have liked to deburr the interior side of rod end holes but they were just too tight to get off without damaging the assembly. Anyway, I can’t see how the interior burrs and chips would be a factor (is this a reasonable assumption?).
Dave’s comment about going slow is absolutely essential. A series of very light tabs is all that is required. To fast and you will be adding to your scrap bin. Drilling out slumped rivets was beyond my ability.
In retrospect, I think a second set of eyes to help keep things square would be very useful. I was working solo which was probably part of my problem as parts orientation is critical when drilling and riveting a tube.
Comments on the above would be appreciated as it will be a while before I get my replacement parts.
BTW, anybody need some slightly undersized rod end tubing?
Cheers
Les
#40643 – happily turning parts into scrap
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: July-20-08 8:15 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
I experienced the same problem on the same parts. I held the rod with the rivet, shop side down squarely over the flat anvil of my bench vise and used my rivet gun with the proper set. Go slow. Worked well. Squeezer didn't. I think the problem is that the rod is hollow and does not support the rivet shank inside.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:59 am Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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I'll second the comment on using a drill press and tube holder. I didn't clamp it down (which would be best) but it easily allows a squarely drilled hole to be made.
Carl Froehlich wrote: [quote] v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
One comment, always drill round tubes and such with a drill press and a tube holder. I made a tube holder out of a piece of 2”x6”, making two 45 degree cuts to make a ‘V’ using a radial arm saw. The tube sits in the ‘V’. I added a couple of bolts to hold the jig onto the drill press so that the drill bit was in the exact center of the ‘V’. You can buy an aluminum one from Harbor freight cheap enough as well.
Be careful not to put too much pressure on the drill bit or it will wander off center.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (450 hrs)
RV-10 (fuselage)
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:17 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
Dave
I am glad that I am not the only one who has had the same problem. Misery loves company as the saying goes.
Knowing that I am going to call the House of Van’s for more parts tomorrow, I decided to do a little experimenting. I will pas this on so others can learn from my mistakes.
- Riveting tubes can be a b^&ch
- When drilling the holes in the tube, it is important to go down the exact centerline of the tube. Being even a little off center will cause problems with riveting (slumping). If even slightly off center, the rivet head will conform to the radius of the tube and you will then be riveting off center.
- Drilling a pilot all the way through then re-drilling with the rod end installed can cause the bottom hole to be a bit off center (elongated) if not drilled exactly down the centerline. (Dos anyone have any ideas why Van’s calls for pilots first and then final drilling through the rod ends? It seems like this makes the whole process a bit riskier).
- I found that installing the rod ends could be deceptively difficult. What I did on my “test” pieces was:
- install the first rod end (which was very tight)
- drilled a pilot through the whole assembly
- drilled the final #30 hole through the whole assembly
- cleaned out the chips in the tube and deburred the exterior holes
- back riveted the end on (as suggested by Carl & Dave)
- repeated for the next hole
- primed the interior of the tube
- Installed the second rod end and drilled as above
- Deburred and riveted
- I would have liked to deburr the interior side of rod end holes but they were just too tight to get off without damaging the assembly. Anyway, I can’t see how the interior burrs and chips would be a factor (is this a reasonable assumption?).
Dave’s comment about going slow is absolutely essential. A series of very light tabs is all that is required. To fast and you will be adding to your scrap bin. Drilling out slumped rivets was beyond my ability.
In retrospect, I think a second set of eyes to help keep things square would be very useful. I was working solo which was probably part of my problem as parts orientation is critical when drilling and riveting a tube.
Comments on the above would be appreciated as it will be a while before I get my replacement parts.
BTW, anybody need some slightly undersized rod end tubing?
Cheers
Les
#40643 – happily turning parts into scrap
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: July-20-08 8:15 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
I experienced the same problem on the same parts. I held the rod with the rivet, shop side down squarely over the flat anvil of my bench vise and used my rivet gun with the proper set. Go slow. Worked well. Squeezer didn't. I think the problem is that the rod is hollow and does not support the rivet shank inside.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
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ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#@% Rivets |
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A little late on this thread, but for those who are yet to get to making the pushrods - I used a similar back riveting technique. But I placed the universal rivet set in a vice, placed the manufactured head into the cup of the set, and then used the backrivet set to shoot the shop head. A bit tricky for one person, but it can be done without too much hassle. A squeezer simply would not work for me with these rivets either.
cheers,
Ron
187, paint prep
[quote] From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Sunday, 20 July 2008 11:45 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Squeezing some *&^%*%*&%#(at)% Rivets
I experienced the same problem on the same parts. I held the rod with the rivet, shop side down squarely over the flat anvil of my bench vise and used my rivet gun with the proper set. Go slow. Worked well. Squeezer didn't. I think the problem is that the rod is hollow and does not support the rivet shank inside.
Dave Leikam
RV-10 #40496
N89DA (Reserved)
Muskego, WI
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