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yak52
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 50
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 Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: Steam guages |
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Let's all remember the following:
1. AMD uses the Continental 0-200 which does not have a vacuum pump, therefore no vacuum guages.
2. The vast majority of you are flying daytime VFR aircraft only. The panel page on your GPS(Garmin, Lowrance) has an excellent six pack of electronic guages with an independent battery backup that lasts more than long enough to get you to an airport. There's really no need for the weight, expense and systems complexity of backup guages.
3. Fly to be happy, not to show that yours is bigger or more expensive than somebody elses.
[quote][b]
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: Steam guages |
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Unfortunately the GPSMap can’t give you airspeed. Groundspeed yes, but not airspeed.
-- Craig
From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of roger lambert
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2008 7:44 AM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Steam guages
Let's all remember the following:
1. AMD uses the Continental 0-200 which does not have a vacuum pump, therefore no vacuum guages.
2. The vast majority of you are flying daytime VFR aircraft only. The panel page on your GPS(Garmin, Lowrance) has an excellent six pack of electronic guages with an independent battery backup that lasts more than long enough to get you to an airport. There's really no need for the weight, expense and systems complexity of backup guages.
3. Fly to be happy, not to show that yours is bigger or more expensive than somebody elses.
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List |
0123456789
[quote][b]
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Gig Giacona
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Steam guages |
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I may have just had a hard-ass for a instructor and I know it isn't in the PTS, but my CFI blocked the entire panel with a sectional and had me land more than once during my PP training.
| craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: | Unfortunately the GPSMap can’t give you airspeed. Groundspeed yes, but not airspeed.
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W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR |
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LHusky
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 86
Location: Madras, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:07 am Post subject: Steam guages |
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Mine did to. He used a red rag to cover the guages. He made me take
off, get to pattern altitude and land without using instruments. It
was amazing how close I was where I was supposed to be when we removed
the rag.
Larry Husky
Madras,OR
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craig(at)craigandjean.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:13 am Post subject: Steam guages |
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Two questions:
- how windy was it?
- given the choice wouldn't you like to know your airspeed?
-- Craig
Do not archive
--
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Gig Giacona
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Steam guages |
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This was a long time ago but I do remember there being some crosswind. (There usually was at the single runway airport where I trained in the spring.) It's not like there was a hurricane or anything near though.
Sure I would. But I think most of us have all flown aircraft that had only one AS indicator. Sure the chances of one in a Dynon going Tango Uniform are higher than than a TSO'd indicator but probably not that much higher.
For the record I've had two AS indicators stop telling me how fast I was going in flight. Both were in 172s. The first was just plan stuck after a two hour flight and the other was a local when something plugged up the pitot tube line. In neither case was there anything bordering on an emergency. I did use a some extra runway because I kept my speed higher than I would normally (though I really wasn't trying to).
I also didn't have a GPS telling me ground speed which I think in the case of a Dynon-out landing I wouldn't use the GS anyway.
All that said, I do plan that at some point in the future I will get my IFR rating in my plane. At that point I will add back-up Alt and AS, probably steam powered and have planed my panel to leave room for it.
| craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote: | Two questions:
- how windy was it?
- given the choice wouldn't you like to know your airspeed?
-- Craig
Do not archive
-- |
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W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR |
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annken100
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Steam guages |
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My instructor made me land without the benefit of instruments also. At the time I thought he was crazy, but in retrospect I'm glad he did. It made me aware of my surroundings and what the airplane was doing rather than just relying on my instruments as the only source of information. I had one occasion where my pitot-static system was getting progressively obstructed and my instruments became unreliable and useless. The landing on that flight was a non-event.
Another example is when I fly my friend's Cub. Looking at the instruments while flying the Cub is almost an afterthought. I'm too busy enjoying the seat-of-your-pants flying. This is why I have no steam guage backup in my all-glass panel. If both my EFIS's fail I can still manage a safe landing.
Of course, we are talking severe clear calm VFR conditions here, IFR or MVFR is a whole different animal. You kinda need your instruments then.
Ken Pavlou
601XL / Corvair
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601 XL / Corvair |
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject: Steam guages |
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I second that.. my instructor had this plastic top off a dog food can that fit the airspeed indicator perfectly. I bet I flew that 152 for 10 hours or more with no ASI feedback. Best learning trick I have even seen for flying a plane. When ya get too slow and the controls are not crisp in response then you need to pay attention closely. I got to the point where I would fly the plane, and guess the airspeed by feel. I would then remove the lid covering the ASI. After about 5 hours of that I usually could get within 5 mph of the actual speed, more often then that closer. The moral of this story is " if it feels sloppy, lazy and unresponsive then give it power, lower the nose or both. This is the main reason I detest LRI's / AOA gauges. If you have to stare at that gauge to land the friggin plane you ought not be flyin.... My humble opinion...
do not archive.
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
-- "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com> wrote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wrgiacona(at)gmail.com>
I may have just had a hard-ass for a instructor and I know it isn't in the PTS, but my CFI blocked the entire panel with a sectional and had me land more than once during my PP training.
craig(at)craigandjean.com wrote:
| Quote: | Unfortunately the GPSMap can’t give you airspeed. Groundspeed yes, but not airspeed.
|
--------
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com================================================-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith-List
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rtdin
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Florida panhandle
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| Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Steam guages |
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About that lack of a vacuum pump; I was crawling around in the Zenair Newsletter Archives and found a neat idea. A builder attached some scat tubing to the back side of the baffling of the high pressure area in the engine compartment. It was attached to a venturi that discharged out the bottom in the low pressure area. He reported that it would spin up a gyro on the ground at high RPM. I'm doubtful about that, but it is out of the way and it did work. And was cheap.
As far as the need for back up instrumentation, I think of the scenario of being hundreds of miles from home and the one and only all-in-one display goes dark on start up. That's when they usually go, rarely in flight. There are three choices. Go home and get your trailer. Tie it down, pull the unit and fix it. Or last, fly it home with no instrumentation. I find no requirement for any gauges in an Experimental for day/VFR. BUT we are not totally brain dead are we?
Hopefully there is a whiskey compass or hand held GPS on board. Most people can avoid a stall and do coordinated turns by the seat of their pants. Practice this. You can stick the tanks before T. O. That's even permitted in commercial operations.
You know the normal cruise throttle position from experience. A fixed pitch prop will not go too far astray. The one thing you do need is to be able to monitor oil pressure and temp. At least its my rock bottom minimum. Those gauges are small, cheap and light. Good weather, extra caution and judgment and we get home.
Bob Dingley
XL/Lyc Do not archive
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