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First flight

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skyring

Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: First flight

The S5 I helped build first flew a couple of hours a year or so ago - with another pilot - but then engine problems, work and life got in the way. 



This week, all problems resolved, I flew it for the first time and yes, it was like a first solo. Exhilarating :  It has the 912S and Grove gear - see attachment. 



I have no choice but to do the test flying (50 hours required here) from a narrow paved runway so I am a bit nervous about the ground behaviour. The plane tracks straight but is very sensitive to rudder pedal input and quickly develops a swing. The first landing was done with very tight spring tension in the springs between rudder and tail wheel and I felt this was just too direct to be safe. I've now put in an extra link and have some slack in the springs and chain link. It feels better but I will need a few more landings to become confident. It's a maule tail wheel by the way. 



Any tips on tail wheel steering spring tension?



Kerry 

S5 builders helper and "begeistert" kitfox flyer

Kitfox test flight.jpg

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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:45 am Post subject: Re: First flight

Kerry,

My total tail wheel time when I first flew my Kitfox was 20 hours dual instruction.  My first flight was from a 150 foot wide runway and I used most of that width on take off.  It is very easy to over control by inputing too much rudder.  My prop turns left so the airplane went right when the tail came up, I pushed too much left rudder and swerved back accross the centerline.



The second flight I used a lot less width because I could anticipate how the plane would react and how much rudder to input.



About the first five hours I limited myself to flying in no wind conditions only.  Not even wind aligned with the runway.  Then I graduated to five mph with no cross wind then five mph cross wind etc.



To answer your question about tail wheel spring tension.  My tail wheel is a Maul.  The chains are adjusted just loose enough so that there is no tension on the springs but not loose enough that the chains sag.  It handles really well.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: First flight

Tom - I had the same problem transitioning from many years of flying spam

cans to my taildragging Kitfox. I was trying to use calculated *pressure* on

the rudder pedal to compensate for perceived drifting, but it never worked!

My instructor solved the problem by teaching me the taildragger "dance" -

pump the pedals all the time while on the ground and pump more for the

direction you want to go. It takes some practice but it works. Watch any

video of a taildragger landing or taking off - the rudder will be wagging

like a happy puppy. Just remember - they're not footrests in a taildragger!



Bob Brennan

1991 UK Model 2 Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:58 am Post subject: First flight

Kerry,



I second what Tom said.  I only had about 6 hours recent tail dragger time 

and another 7 or so hours in a 172 and a couple hours in a Skyranger during 

the 7 months preceding flying my Kitfox III home about 320 miles.  Prior to 

that I hadn't flown since 1979 and then only about 12 hours tail dragger 

time and only an hour of that was PIC time.



My first takeoff was from a 100' wide runway and I was only getting 3900 rpm 

from my 912 (that's another story) so the takeoff roll seemed like forever. 

I used up a bunch of runway width.  My first Kitfox landing was a couple 

hours later and 4 bounces and used up plenty of runway width.  My second 

takeoff was fine since I knew what to expect and my second landing was good.



I too only fly on good days and from an airport with 3 runways so there is 

almost always no crosswind when I land.  I have 35 +/- hours in my Fox and I 

will not fly to an airport unless the winds are fairly straight down the 

runway.  I'm starting to get a better feel so as my skills improve I'll be 

able to handle crosswinds.



My tail wheel springs are just snug.  Not loose.



Pete

Hell Paso, TX (flying out of Las Cruces, NM KLRU)

Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove



---

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: First flight

I find that my feet are rock steady on takeoff and real busy on landing.



Pete

Hell Paso, TX



---

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

skyring

Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:08 am Post subject: Re: First flight

Hi Tom and Pete, thanks for the input. It matches what I am experiencing. I have about 500 hours on tail draggers but the Kitfox, at least the way this one is configured, is the most directionally sensitive I have flown.



It has helped by putting a bit of slack into the spring and chain. This seems to allow some directional control with rudder before the tailwheel starts to become the main steering method (with  tail on the ground). 



I think I'm just used to a much looser/slacker tail wheel set up. The aeroplane actually tracks perfectly - it's only when I start the "tailwheel" tap dance that things get a bit lively. 



More landings will help. Storms here tonight so I'm grounded til Sunday. 

Kerry 

Vienna

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: First flight

Be careful with the slack springs.  You need to bend them to make sure they 

won't come loose.  If they do come loose you will have NO control at slow 

speed.



Pete



---

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

lkc(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: First flight

I'm one of those who are learning from the start in my KF-S5.  I can relate to Pete's 4 bounce on landing but sometimes I would be happy with only 4 bounces.  I now have over 50 landings and 75% are good (not excelent), and the other 25% I wish I could take back.  I'm glad I have patient cfi's.  I have no idea how learning in the KF compares to learning in a trike cause I've never tried landing anything but the KF... oping the learning curve levels out soon so I can solo.   Layne   Anchorage, Ak.   S5 Sooby    



____________________________________________________________ 

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  [quote][b]

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: First flight

Not to discourage you, much, but I got my PPL many years  ago in a Piper Tomahawk and soloed after 12 hours of dual. When I bought my  Kitfox I hadn't flown in about 20 years so opted to start again from scratch for  an NPPL in the UK. Looking at my logbook it was after 30 hours of dual that I  soloed again, although about 8 hours of that was in a trike microlight. So I  figure it took me about twice as long, but now I'm pretty darn good at  it.

  

 BTW I bought the KF from a gent who was learning to fly  first time - he gave up and a bought Jabiru trike kit.

  

 Bob Brennan

 1991 UK Model 2 Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa 

 

 

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  lkc(at)juno.com

Sent: 31 July 2008 2:57 pm

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: First  flight

 

 

I'm one of those who are learning from the start in my KF-S5.  I can  relate to Pete's 4 bounce on landing but sometimes I would be happy with only 4  bounces.  I now have over 50 landings and 75% are good (not excelent), and  the other 25% I wish I could take back.  I'm glad I have patient  cfi's.  I have no idea how learning in the KF compares to learning in a  trike cause I've never tried landing anything but the KF... oping the  learning curve levels out soon so I can solo.   Layne    Anchorage, Ak.   S5 Sooby  



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Surf a world without wires. Click now for great wireless Internet  solutions!

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: Re: First flight

[quote="lkc(at)juno.com"]I'm one of those who are learning from the start in my KF-S5.? I can relate to Pete's 4 bounce on landing but sometimes I would be happy with only 4 bounces.  I now have over 50 landings and 75% are good (not excelent), and the other 25% I wish I could take back.  I'm glad I have patient cfi's.  I have no idea how learning in the KF compares to learning in a trike cause I've never tried landing anything but the KF... oping the learning curve levels out soon so I can solo.   Layne   Anchorage, Ak.   S5 Sooby    



   	  Quote: 	
		  [b] 	




Do you have big tires on it?  I know most of us have gone to at least 20" tires up here, I have 24" on mine.  If you have big tires on, you may consider going to a smaller 800 or so until you have it figured out.  The first tail dragger I flew was a PA12 with 30" airstreaks.  The first take off was from ENA on the grass strip with no issues.  We landed on the main runway and I bout killed us.  Big tires at 3 psi and a cross wind make for exciting times on pavement.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: First flight

Layne,  

  

 Did you get the Bungies I sent?

  

 Pete

  

 Hell Paso, TX

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: First flight

Kerry,

First, Congratulations!  And hang in there, be safe and have fun.



Also, what is it that appears to be hanging below your cockpit?



Randy

Series 5/ 7 firewall forward

912S WarpDrive taper tip.

Just passed 200 hours and it is a great plane.



--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:29 am Post subject: First flight

A bit sloppy works well for me....see picture.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/557+ hrs





On Jul 30, 2008, at 9:04 AM, skyring wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <kerryskyring(at)hotmail.com>



 Any tips on tail wheel steering spring tension?



 Kerry

tailwheel_spring_slop.jpg

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

peteohms

Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 224
Location: Leander, TX

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:23 am Post subject: First flight

Lynn,



Is that a pneumatic tire?



Pete



---

_________________
Pete
Leander, TX
Kitfox III, 912ul, Grove

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: First flight

No, it's the Homebuilder's Special from Aircraft Spruce....it's soft,  

measures about 6", and works quite well. Part #06-03600...about $30

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: flying w/557+ hrs





On Aug 1, 2008, at 3:20 PM, Pete Christensen wrote:



[quote] 

 <apeterchristensen(at)sbcglobal.net>



 Lynn,



 Is that a pneumatic tire?



 Pete



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

skyring

Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: Re: First flight

Also, what is it that appears to be hanging below your cockpit? 



Randy 



Hi Randy - that's a big venturi tube for the gyro driven direction indicator and artificial horizon. 



And I am trying very hard to stay safe. Life`s too much fun to take the early exit. Kerry.

skyring

Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: Re: First flight

Hi Lynn,



That's about how my tail wheel springs now look and I am quite happy with it. We've wired up everything so the springs can't jump out etc. 



I think it was just that I am used to giving big boot fulls of rudder in my Auster to stay straight and the kitfox needs just a little toe pressure to create a major change in direction. 



Having the springs a bit loose brings it more back to what I am used to but I will report in again when I have a few more landings under my belt. The plane is wonderful in the air and the performance off the ground is terrific. 



Kerry

skyring

Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 32

Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 11:52 am Post subject: Re: First flight

Be careful with the slack springs. You need to bend them to make sure they 

won't come loose. If they do come loose you will have NO control at slow 

speed. 



Hi Pete, this is good advice. We've used lock wire to try and make sure the springs don't jump  out of the eyelets. I was a bit worried about this but think the brakes are good enough to keep things under control should one chain or spring ever let go. But I'm open to suggestions on this and hope I haven't overlooked potential trouble... kerry.

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