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Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

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lwinger

Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 229
Location: Tustin, CA

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

With the importance of properly tensioned control cables, would there be any interest in a "floating" aircraft cable tension meter?  The expense of nearly $800 makes it hard to justify for one builder with one plane.  



It seems like two options could work.  



Option A:  Shared purchase/unlimited future use for the cost of one-way shipping to the next user (by a group of at least 16 builders chipping in $50) 

Option B: Rental at $xx (plus one-way shipping to the next user) with one builder buying and owning the unit.



Any interest out there?  If so, please reply with the option that you might be interested in.  If I get at least 16 "Option A" responses, I'll pick one up ASAP.  



BTW, I know there are other ways to calibrate our cables.  This is just to investigate how to make a purpose-built quality tool available to the broader group.  I've attached the instructions for the Tensitron ACM-100 from Aircraft Spruce.



Thanks.

Tensitron instructions.pdf

Description:

Instructions for the Tensitron ACM-100

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Tensitron instructions.pdf

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_________________
Larry Winger
Tustin, CA
Plans building 601XL/650 with Corvair
Installing fuel system
www.mykitlog.com/lwinger

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:16 am Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

Why not build one for peanuts like Larry McFarland did? Look at

http://www.macsmachine.com/ under "Tools, Jigging & Handling". Cable Tools"



-- Craig



--

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

On Sunday 10 August 2008 12:15, Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <craig(at)craigandjean.com>



 Why not build one for peanuts like Larry McFarland did? Look at

 http://www.macsmachine.com/ under "Tools, Jigging & Handling". Cable Tools"




	


I like the idea ... but I wonder how this is used after the cables are 

installed in the aircraft, which is when the measurement really needs to be 

made?



There are also some less expensive alternatives out there, such as:



http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/cablegauge.php. 



Wicks also has a cable tension gauge for $89.99 in the last of their catalogs 

I got. I suspect the difference in price is ease of use, and accuracy. If it 

is only going to be used a few times, then ease of use is not quite as 

important as it might be. And, how accurate must it really be?

-- 

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

=================================================

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

The picture on Larry's site showing the gauge with the bucket hanging on the

cable just shows the calibration procedure. As Larry said in another message

"I built one that is real simple and have used it off and on for 4 years."

So I believe he is using it to check cables in the plane.



I looked at the one on the Wicks site. The design is very similar to Larry's

home-made gauge. But it doesn't seem to go low enough for the cables in the

Zenith planes:



http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=1814/index.html



"Ranges 3/32: 70-300lbs, 1/8: 100-500 lbs. 5/32: 140-800 lbs. Fits cable

sizes 3/32, 1/8, 5/32."



The Burroughs gauges in the Spruce catalog appear to be sensitive enough:



"Tension range: 10-70lbs. for 1/16" cable, 15 - 70 lbs. for 3/32 & 1/8"

cable. 50-350 lbs. on 5/32" & 3/16" cable."



You can always check the accuracy of the cheaper commercial gauges using the

same approach shown on Larry's web site.



-- Craig



--

z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

On Sunday 10 August 2008 15:33, Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <craig(at)craigandjean.com>



 The picture on Larry's site showing the gauge with the bucket hanging on

 the cable just shows the calibration procedure. As Larry said in another

 message "I built one that is real simple and have used it off and on for 4

 years." So I believe he is using it to check cables in the plane.



 I looked at the one on the Wicks site. The design is very similar to

 Larry's home-made gauge. But it doesn't seem to go low enough for the

 cables in the Zenith planes:


	


I think you're correct about the range of the Wicks gauge. I'd be curious to 

know how Larry uses his gauge with the cables installed. 

-- 

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

=================================================

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

I think his gauge simply clips over the cables and indicates tension after calibrating on the cable stretched by the weight in the bucket via the bellcrank. I don't think the entire setup in the photos is the gauge - it is simply a method to tension a cable with a dead weight. The the gauge spring loads across the cable in the A/C.



I wonder if he has one for every diameter cable/cable construction since there is a small effect that is related directly to the cable diameter and construction?



David L. Downey

  Harleysville (SE) PA, USA



  

--- On Sun, 8/10/08, Jim Belcher <z601(at)anemicaardvark.com> wrote:

[quote]From: Jim Belcher <z601(at)anemicaardvark.com>

Subject: Re: Zenith601-List:  Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

To: zenith601-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 4:47 PM



[quote]--> Zenith601-List message posted by: Jim Belcher

<z601(at)anemicaardvark.com>



On Sunday 10 August 2008 15:33, Craig Payne wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> Zenith601-List message posted by: "Craig Payne"

 <craig(at)craigandjean.com>



 The picture on Larry's site showing the gauge with the bucket hanging

on
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   the cable just shows the calibration procedure. As Larry said in another

 message "I built one that is real simple and have used it off and on

for 4
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   years." So I believe he is using it to check cables in the plane.



 I looked at the one on the Wicks site. The design is very similar to

 Larry's home-made gauge. But it doesn't seem to go low enough for

the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   cables in the Zenith planes:


	


I think you're correct about the range of         [quote][b]

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

Hi guys,

The gage is constructed to be placed on an installed cable. The gage is 

opened against the spring enough to allow the pulley

geometry to open enough to slip over the cable. The spring pulls on the 

leverage and tries to bring the cable around a bend

and closes enough for you to read the pounds marked on the gage.  The 

preload to mark actual pounds before checking

is direct and very reliable. The only difficulty was finding a spring 

that had the stretch and range to retain its shape.

It was music wire of .025 diameter outside diameter .275 diameter and 

approximately 1.62 inches long.

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tension3.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tension4.gif

http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tenscalbrate.gif

The geometry of the two halves and wheels are best seen in the links above.

Larry McFarland

Jim Belcher wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Sunday 10 August 2008 15:33, Craig Payne wrote:

> 

> <craig(at)craigandjean.com>

>

> The picture on Larry's site showing the gauge with the bucket hanging on

> the cable just shows the calibration procedure. As Larry said in another

> message "I built one that is real simple and have used it off and on for 4

> years." So I believe he is using it to check cables in the plane.

>

> I looked at the one on the Wicks site. The design is very similar to

> Larry's home-made gauge. But it doesn't seem to go low enough for the

> cables in the Zenith planes:

>     

 I think you're correct about the range of the Wicks gauge. I'd be curious to 

 know how Larry uses his gauge with the cables installed.

Z601(at)anemicaardvark.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

On Sunday 10 August 2008 18:58, LarryMcFarland wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <larry(at)macsmachine.com>



 Hi guys,

 The gage is constructed to be placed on an installed cable. The gage is

 opened against the spring enough to allow the pulley

 geometry to open enough to slip over the cable. The spring pulls on the

 leverage and tries to bring the cable around a bend

 and closes enough for you to read the pounds marked on the gage.  The

 preload to mark actual pounds before checking

 is direct and very reliable. The only difficulty was finding a spring

 that had the stretch and range to retain its shape.

 It was music wire of .025 diameter outside diameter .275 diameter and

 approximately 1.62 inches long.

 http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tension3.gif

 http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tension4.gif

 http://www.macsmachine.com/images/tjh/cabletools/full/tenscalbrate.gif

 The geometry of the two halves and wheels are best seen in the links above.


	




Now it makes sense. Thanks for the photos and explanation. It sounds as though 

Mr. Downey's understanding is correct.

=================================================

               Jim B. Belcher

    BS, MS Physics, math, Computer Science

                  A&P/IA

           Instrument Rated Pilot

     General Radio Telephone Certificate

=================================================

deglass1

Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Forest, VA

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: aircraft cable tension meter - a new solution

Zenith builders-

With Chris Heintz's letter and this thread of interest on the 601 list, I have been told by my patent attorney that it's OK to talk about this:  For a year in my spare time after completing a 601 fuselage as part of a team build, I've been developing and preparing to patent a device to allow in-line setting, adjusting, and easy visual inspection of the tension in cables.  The patent covers aircraft and other applications.  It takes the permanent place of one turnbuckle in any of the 3 axes, serving that tightening function during installation.  It's in testing now for ultimate strength, and will be shopped around soon.  Based on the CNC production prototypes, I expect it will cost $60-80 each.

The prototype in the attached photo (on its control simulator for test and evaluation) has a nominal setting of 30 lb as shown.  It hits a hard stop in the event of a 10% dynamic overload that prohibits flutter, and will maintain at least some cable tension in the event of a component slip of up to an inch that can immediately be detected at visual inspection since the device is in-line all the time.

I would appreciate the interest feedback from this small but dedicated group, on both the technical aspects and price points.  The aircraft cable version is such a small niche that I'm not sure it's worth chasing.

Regards to all -

David Glass

(fuselage builder, N253DG/601XL/3300A, in airframe integration now)

Pair - aircraft version with hardware .JPG

Description:

A pair of in-line tensiometers, with different end hardware configurations, in relaxed state.

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Tensiometer on test stand.JPG

Description:

CNC production in-line tensiometer on test stand (David Glass)

Filesize:

456.99 KB

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_________________
David Glass
Forest, VA
Zodiac XL - N253DG reserved
On the gear, ready for tail and cables 12/06

zodierocket(at)hsfx.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

Please send me a picture



Mark Townsend

Can-Zac Aviation Ltd.

president(at)can-zacaviation.com

www.can-zacaviation.com 

--

leo(at)zuehlfield.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

David,  On my HDS the cable tensioners are made up of two pieces of 

aluminum angle, a bolt, a flat washer,

a nylon insert self locking nut and some safety wire.  This is the Chris 

Heintz design.  My DAR thought they

were way cool and too bad you can't do that on a certified aircraft.  My 

cables and tensioners are visible

with the seat backs pulled forward.  You can reach them to give them a 

good "twang".



I would not buy yours.  But, then I'm a cheapskate.

-- 



Leo Gates

N601Z - CH601HDS TDO

Rotax 912UL



deglass1 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Zenith builders-

 With Chris Heintz's letter and this thread of interest on the 601 list, I have been told by my patent attorney that it's OK to talk about this:  For a year in my spare time after completing a 601 fuselage as part of a team build, I've been developing and preparing to patent a device to allow in-line setting, adjusting, and easy visual inspection of the tension in cables.  T

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

Very impressive David. I think you've made one huge mistake. You are underpricing it. The aircraft community will never accept a part that does more than what it is replacing unless there is an order of magnitude difference in the price.



Keep up the good work and keep us up dated.

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

Ron Lendon

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 685
Location: Clinton Twp., MI

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Tool sharing -- aircraft cable tension meter

Interesting concept Mr. Glass.  Let's add a complex piece of equipment to a simple machine to make it what?  More complex?  More safe?  I really don't see the need.  Guess I went to the school of KISS and remembered some of it.  But I do wish you much success.

_________________
Ron Lendon
WW Corvair with Roy's Garage 5th bearing
CH 601 XLB
N601LT - Flying
http://www.mykitlog.com/rlendon
Corvair Engine Prints:
https://sites.google.com/site/corvairenginedata/

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