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Kolb Design

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NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Kolb Design

While I was at Oshkosh I had a talk with Homer  Kolb. He made a comment that really surprised me. He said that he was  disappointed that New Kolb hadn't refined the planes more. When I asked him what  he meant he said that for example the MKIIIX that they are displaying at  the show needs to have a better airfoil for the speed range the plane is capable  of. He then started talking about airfoils with Reynolds numbers that would be a  much better match. The stall speed would increase a bit but the cruise  speed increase would be dramatic. I don't know anything about airfoil  numbers so that went over my head. What do you guys think?

  

 I agree with the comment that Homer looked younger.  I think that he misses the old times and might just jump at a chance at  improving his design. He said he would only say something if he were  asked.

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered  MKIIIC

   [quote][b]

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: Kolb Design

I agree with Homer.  The old airfoil is appropriate for the old planes but with the lower drag of the xtra,a wing drag reduction should be in the works.   Most wing spars take the full thickness of the wing.

On the MkIII there is a good bit of space that can be reduced.   The leading edge radius can be increased some

too at very little lift sacrifice.

BB





On 8, Aug 2008, at 9:50 AM, Richard & Martha Neilsen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  While I was at Oshkosh I had a talk with Homer Kolb. He made a comment that really surprised me. He said that he was disappointed that New Kolb hadn't refined the planes more. When I asked him what he meant he said that for example the MKIIIX that they are displaying at the show needs to have a better airfoil for the speed range the plane is capable of. He then started talking about airfoils with Reynolds numbers that would be a much better match. The stall speed would increase a bit but the cruise speed increase would be dramatic. I don't know anything about airfoil numbers so that went over my head. What do you guys think?

 

I agree with the comment that Homer looked younger. I think that he misses the old times and might just jump at a chance at improving his design. He said he would only say something if he were asked.

 

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

 	  Quote: 	
		  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

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href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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by0ung(at)brigham.net
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: Kolb Design

I agree with Homer. The old airfoil is appropriate for the old planes but with the lower drag of the xtra,   

a wing drag reduction should be in the works.  

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.  

   
	


I guess I had always thought that if I were to build another set of wings I would do some research in raising the leading edge tube an inch to an inch and half.   By doing this I would think that you could decrease the wing incidence in flight with near the same lift.   Making it a bit faster,,,   moving the leading edge up would give it a profile more like the super cub.  Anyone smarter than I know what effect it would have?  

   

Boyd Young  

Kolb MkIII C   535+ hours and counting  

Brigham   City Utah.  

   

   

       [quote][b]

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: Kolb Design

Boyd, raising the leading edge tube and retaining the same diameter tube would reduce lift andincrease cruise. 

Increasing the radius of the leading edge and maintaining a flat bottom (have to raise it a mite to do this)

would help cruise with less loss of lift.  The air would be able to find its path easier according to angle of attack.

I have thought about attaching a temporary cuff on mine to test the change in flight characteristics.

Life is too short and projects too many.

BB



On 8, Aug 2008, at 2:58 PM, boyd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I agree with Homer. The old airfoil is appropriate for the old planes but with the lower drag of the xtra,

a wing drag reduction should be in the works.

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

 
	


I guess I had always thought that if I were to build another set of wings I would do some research in raising the leading edge tube an inch to an inch and half.   By doing this I would think that you could decrease the wing incidence in flight with near the same lift.   Making it a bit faster,,,   moving the leading edge up would give it a profile more like the super cub.  Anyone smarter than I know what effect it would have?

 

Boyd Young

Kolb MkIII C   535+ hours and counting

Brigham City Utah.

 

 



 	  Quote: 	
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blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com

style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
	


 [quote][b]

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Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: Kolb Design

At 02:58 PM 8/8/2008, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   I agree with Homer. The old airfoil is appropriate for the old planes but with the lower drag of the xtra, 

 a wing drag reduction should be in the works.

  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

  

 I guess I had always thought that if I were to build another set of wings I would do some research in raising the leading edge tube an inch to an inch and half.   By doing this I would think that you could decrease the wing incidence in flight with near the same lift.   Making it a bit faster,,,   moving the leading edge up would give it a profile more like the super cub.  Anyone smarter than I know what effect it would have?

 	


 These ribs maybe more what he is talking about. Thinner & not flat bottomed.

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_________________
Possum

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: Kolb Design

These ribs maybe more what he is talking about. Thinner & not flat bottomed.  

   

Possums  

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.  

   
	


   

That was the nose profile I was thinking about….  But the convex bottom was not in my mental snapshot.  

   

What are you building that set of wings for?  

   

Boyd Young  

Kolb MKIIIC  

Brigham City  Ut.  

       [quote][b]

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:40 am Post subject: Kolb Design

The stall speed would increase a bit but the cruise  speed increase  > would be dramatic>>

  

 Glad Homer didn`t do that. Any increase in stall  speed would put the Xtra outside the qualifying parameters for a `microlight in  the UK. It only sneaked in here beacause the addition of VG`s lowered the stall  speed .

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

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JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb Design

The new wingtips Kolb came out with on the MK III this year will make a huge difference, should lower the stall speed a lot, and improve glide.   Not only due to the wingtip itself, but the extra 2 feet of true airfoil on each wing that was until now flattened out as part of the bow wingtip.   



The new wingtip along with a longer effective span wing will improve things a lot in the new Kolbs.   From reading John Hauck's flight reports, I would not hesitate to modify my Kolb MK III wings to use the new wingtips.



I would think it would also pay big benefits to use droop wingtips for the smaller Kolbs such as the firestar and the firefly.  Its an easy upgrade to the kit,  I wonder if they have considered that ?



Mike

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_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

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