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Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 2:57 am Post subject: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

Roger,

It is clear to me that the Chevron memo was written by their lawyers.

In case someone does use auto fuel in their airplane they can say they

told you not to. A possible secondary reason is that their profit

margin is probably higher on avgas.



There are reams of warnings written by lawyers to cover their

backsides (and justify their existence) for every manufactured product

sold in the USA. Product liability issues are the origin of these

"dire" warnings.  Have you ever read all the CYA verbiage that comes

with any prescription medicines?



I am not getting my panties in a twist over the lawyers warnings

because this is nothing new nor will it make any difference to most

thinking aviators, as you stated in your memo.



I still use and plan to continue to use 87 octane auto fuel in our

912UL. Even if our airfield had mogas on the field (it does not) and

they charged the same price per gallon as the local gas station, I

would still tote it to the airport in 5 gallon cans. I know the fuel I

buy is fresh because it is a very high traffic gas station, and so

far, ethanol free. Mogas at an airport could easily be a lot older

than the fuel I buy at the local gas station. I don't wont stale auto

fuel in my airplane.



Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY

KBQR

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

Hi Thom,



You are right about your fuel claims. 

Every website I posted on and I sent the letters to Flight  Design have people speaking up in support. I have received dozens of emails in support and that is just since last night. 



One voice will dye, but thousands may be heard. 



 Everyone,

Don't sit ideally and complain. 1-2 minutes of your time is all anyone is asking. It's your future and your time to offer your hand in a worthwhile effort to help shape it. Do it for yourself if not for anyone else.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

 	  Roger Lee wrote: 	
		  Hi Thom,



You are right about your fuel claims. 

Every website I posted on and I sent the letters to Flight  Design have people speaking up in support. I have received dozens of emails in support and that is just since last night. 



One voice will dye, but thousands may be heard. 



 Everyone,

Don't sit ideally and complain. 1-2 minutes of your time is all anyone is asking. It's your future and your time to offer your hand in a worthwhile effort to help shape it. Do it for yourself if not for anyone else. 	




I'm confused by the goal of this. Is this only about the issue of having autogas available at airports? Or about having 91 octane period? or ?



I'm not sure what they're resisting. Is it just a general CYA finger-wagging against using autogas in aircraft? Or are they trying to remove autogas specifically from airports?



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

Hi Lucien,



They are resisting all of it. No 91 octane for aircraft, no ethanol free fuel for aircraft, no 91 octane at an airport, ect... 

We as the aviation community need 91 octane ethanol free fuel available. Ground based fuel has been a main stay in aviation since before we were born.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

Swift Fuels Home:

Meet Our Team

Test Videos



 

Swift Renewable Fuels

Welcome to the next generation of aviation fuels.

In fact, this is the introduction of the first and only completely renewable fuel. The current fuel used in piston fired aircraft is 100 Low Lead (100LL). The United States and Europe have banned the use of 100LL due to tetraethyl lead which is needed to bring the octane number to 100. There currently is a moratorium on this ban until 2010. Swift has this solution.



Unlike the current process of refining crude oil to arrive at a final fuel, we synthetically create hydrocarbons from bio-mass. This creation method is superior to the existing refining method because we maintain control over the entire process giving us the flexibility to meet or exceed current ASTM specifications. 

The advantages of Swift Bio-Synthetic Fuel are: 



Seamless replacement of 100LL (no engine modifications) 



15-25% increase in range over 100LL (no oxygenates) 



20% drop in pollutants over the current 100LL fuel 



15% more volumetric energy than 100LL 



No need for stabilizers or additives



More Information

 Site Terms | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | FAQ 

Copyright © 2008 Swift Enterprises.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

hgmckay

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:04 pm Post subject: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

OK Roger, Please explain this message in more detail. Sounds too good to be

true. Something is missing, but I don't know what it is! What is Swift

Fuels??



Hugh McKay



--

Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

Hi Hugh,



Unfortunately you know as much as I do by reading the website. I have heard of them, but that's all. 100LL is supposed to go away in 2010 because of the lead moratorium from the EPA. I did hear or read that this Swift company were only going to make 2K gal. a day to start. I hope more Mfg's pick up the torch or the fuel companies have a replacement that they aren't really telling anyone about.

I hate to say it, but it's a wait and see.

_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

JOE RONCO

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 31
Location: CENTENNIAL COLORADO

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

Check out their web site at http://www.swiftenterprises.com/



They are working with FAA, ASTM and engine manufactures (Lycoming in

particular) on getting approval for a non-alcohol renewable fuel to replace

100LL without any engine modifications. They hope to have an ASTM Spec

approved this year.



They are initially planning on producing Swiftfuel at a modified ethanol

plant that has been shut down and are talking to 6 major oil companies about

licensing agreements to produce the fuel as they don't want to be in the

production business. From the presentation they made at Oshkosh this sounds

very promising.



Joe Ronco



--

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: Re: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

 	  Roger Lee wrote: 	
		  Hi Lucien,



They are resisting all of it. No 91 octane for aircraft, no ethanol free fuel for aircraft, no 91 octane at an airport, ect... 

We as the aviation community need 91 octane ethanol free fuel available. Ground based fuel has been a main stay in aviation since before we were born. 	




Ah, ok. Well then I'll surely send off a couple of nasty-grams to those two email addresses you sent earlier.....



Locally we've already had our first possibly E10 induced engine-out. It was uneventful, a triker whose 582 quit and he landed safely in a field engine-off.



Exact cause isn't known, but it appears that a tank full of E10 worked too well as a fuel system cleaner in this case, and some freed-up gunk made its way to the filter as well as the carburettors.  Going by the description here but it sounds like this is a possible explanation for the cause.



So yes we need clean high-octane unleaded for sure. 



Tho not with E10, I've been flying through the air on mostly autogas for over a decade now not to mention as you did all those aviators before us for many years... 



Definitely sounds like CYA stuff to me...



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:47 am Post subject: Rotax Engines-List: 91 octane and time to be heard

Here is a Wki entry on Butanol Fuel.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butanol_fuel



No idea if this has anything at all to do with what Swift is doing.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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