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How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

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AZFlyer

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Prescott, AZ

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:08 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Builders,



Seems to me that using 6061-T6 would not require Zinc-Chromate, or ? with it's built in corrosion resistance.  Any opinions...?  I live in the desert, not near salt-water...  maybe visit the ocean occasionally, but plane won't sit there... and no floats planned...



Mike

_________________
Mike Miller @ millrml@aol.com
601 XL-B, 3300, Dynon

Remember, "the second mouse gets the cheese"!

Jaybannist(at)cs.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Mike, I am using SEM Self Etching Primer, purchased at an automotive paint 

store, in a rattle can.  I only use it on mating surfaces - little masking - 

just spray it on. According to ZAC, priming everything is not really necessary 

and only adds weight. Total priming really looks cool, though, and I suspect 

that is the real reason folks use it.  Remember, if you are adding things to an 

airplane, the most important thing to add is lightness.



Jay

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

AZFlyer wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Builders,



Seems to me that using 6061-T6 would not require Zinc-Chromate, or ? with it's built in corrosion resistance.  Any opinions...?  I live in the desert, not near salt-water...  maybe visit the ocean occasionally, but plane won't sit there... and no floats planned...



Mike



--------

Mike Miller (at) millrml(at)aol.com

601 XL, 3300



  



Mike,
	


 It's still a good idea to put a light coat of Zinc-Chromate between 

surfaces that are riveted together

and on bottom surfaces that might collect moisture.

The air, moisture or rain that would collect in these areas might just 

be contaminated enough to cause

you some corrosion.  It doesn't require much effort and so long as you 

use a 3M-6001 respirator or

equal, you'll do no harm to yourself or anyone else.  The person you 

sell your plane to might just live where

corrosion is a factor in his environment.



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



 	  Quote:

Larry Portouw

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 17
Location: Sierra Vista/Ft. Huachuca, AZ

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:47 am Post subject: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

FWIW, I'm not using any.  Although currently in Georgia, I will soon be back in Arizona with the intent of staying there.  Airplane will be hangared, 6061-T6 is corrosioin resistant clear through, and I don't want my heirs inheriting the liability by selling the thing when I'm gone.  Don't want to grow a third eye-ball from the chromate, either.   Just my 2 cents, but I see no reason why a Zenith wouldn't hold up well for 20 years or so if away from coastal or NE acid rain climates.  Corrosion proofing seems to qualify as the immortal thread. I suspect there are lots of non-corrosion proofing lurkers out there...

_________________
Larry Portouw
601XL Kit (H. Stab) (on hold)
PA-22 N8141C<< This project now taking all my time.
Fort Huachuca, AZ

robert.eli(at)adelphia.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:39 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Larry,



I am building a 701 without any corrosion protection during the building 

process. The only thing I plan to do is to perhaps spray some ACF-50 anti 

corrosion formula (www.acf-50.com) along the metal to metal contact surfaces 

through inspection plate openings (that I am installing) after assembly. And 

I may not end up doing that much.  I talked personally with Chris Heintz, 

and also the sons, about this on several occasions, and all agree the 

6061-T6 does not need any protection if you aren't exposing it to salt air 

on a regular basis. They were fully aware that I am building without any 

corrosion proofing, and saw no problem in doing so.



Bob Eli

N701K



---

Doug Garrou

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 18
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:02 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

AZ:



As luck would have it, last week I was doing some work for a client and got a chance to chat at length with the head metallurgist at a major aluminum smelter (!).  This guy lives, thinks, and breathes aluminum.  His office was like a shrine to the stuff.  Of course we got to chatting about airplane building.  He said that unless you were constantly around the ocean or have some sort of a setup for dissimilar metal corrosion, 6061 just flat out doesn't need any additional corrosion protection.  



You will get a lot of other opinions on the web, but this guy was, after all.... the head metallurgist at an aluminum smelter.  



With your airplane in the desert, I suspect we'll all be long dead and gone before it corrodes.



Our project will be flying somewhat near the ocean, and occasionally over the ocean.  We're putting zinc chromate (that's it, just sprayed on zinc chromate) on mating surfaces.  Given the properties of 6061, I suspect even that's overkill.



Cheers

Doug Garrou

Project 801

www.garrou.com



--

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:31 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

I would prime between sufaces too...Get some "self etching primer" from

NAPA in rattle cans (I find it is more durable and easier to live than

ZC) Its really very little inconvenience compared to the overall.



Frank



HDS 400 hours...For sale...There I've said it...Boo hoo...



Do not archive 



--

kellymeiste(at)jcwifi.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:43 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

He said that unless you were constantly around the ocean or have some sort 

of a setup for dissimilar metal corrosion, 6061 just flat out doesn't need 

any additional corrosion protection.



++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



I'd suggest asking him about industrial pollutants from cities and 

factories, acid rain , and chemicals blowing in the wind from farm 

pesticides and fertilizers. Also if you live in the northern US the DOT 

spreads tons of salt on roads every winter, then we walk in it getting it on 

our feet, climb into our pride & joy & go for a flight.



Kelly Meiste

601 HD (zinc chromated and hanger 1,000 miles from the ocean)

planejim(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Mike,



As long as the airplane always lives in the desert climate it would be no 

problem leaving out the Z-C. The problem comes when and if the airplane ever 

gets based in a different climate (if you were to sell it) and stays out in 

the weather. Water in skin lap joints can even corrode 6061-T6 over time.



Jim Hoak 601HD  503 hrs



do not archive

---

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:16 pm Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

All-

    Now, to throw a 4' monkey wrench in.

    I've had to do some scratch building, and some of my T-6 sheet is "Clad" 

(It came from Wick's), and some is "Bare" (It came from ACS). Wick's sheet 

comes with a plastic sheet on one side, ACS with nothing. Is this the "Bare" 

they're refering to, or does it refer to some corrosion treatment applied 

during manufacture?

    I'm using zinc oxide on all mating components, but is there an undue 

danger of corrosion on the free spans? Anyone been there, done that?

    I don't live in a high corrosion risk area.

                                                                             

                                                                             

    Bill

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=21425#21425

grs-pms(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:33 pm Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Clad aluminum has a thin layer of pure aluminum applied to the alloy sheet

during the rolling process.  Bare means that there is no such protection.

Aluminum sheet stock may be clad on one side or both.  If it is clad one

side, that side should be on the outer surface of the airplane.



George Swinford



Do not archive





---

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:20 pm Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

George-

    Thanks. My apologies for not adding..



                                                    Do Not Achive.

                                                                             

                                            Bill

---

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Hi Bill as George said, clad is the skin of pure aluminium on the

oustside.



All of ZAC's kits come with "bare" 6061-T6 and they only all for a

priming betweeen mating surfaces. So no extra apinting required in your

case. 



Frank 



--

btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Doug,



     All it takes is a few drops of water to for

galvanic corrosion to occur between two 6061 pieces of

aluminum.  The link below is for a picture of my

fuselage on the bench.  A very small amount of rain

water got between the two aft fuselage side panels the

day of delivery, and was not noticed until 6 months

later when I needed the sheets.  They were in a corner

of my garage the whole time.  I went a little

overkill, and sprayed all internal surfaces.  With the

benefit of hindsight, I would now just spray where

metal to metal contact exists with a spray can primer.

 



http://home.sandiego.edu/~btucker-03/HTML/Zodiac%20pics-Pages/Image29.html



     In my mind, seeing is believing...



R/



Brandon

naumuk(at)alltel.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:59 pm Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

---

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

I plan to use primer between mating surfaces and probably treat the wings and airframe with a mist of ACF 50 or similar when completed.



For what it's worth,  I've owned a 1968 C172 and 1975 Cessna 182 which were not zinc chromated on any interior surfaces.  I don't know what grade aluminum Cessna used.   The 182 was a Florida bird until I bought it in 1997.  Both were reasonably clean inside, particularly between the ribs and bulkheads. I never saw any areas of serious corrosion, just minor surface oxidation.  I used ACF 50 in both aircraft and was happy with the results.  



I hangar my aircraft which offers a great deal of protection.  If I had to tiedown outside all the time I would probably zinc chromate any areas likely to collect moisture....just to be safe.

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

rpf(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Hi Rick,



I was planning on doing the same thing either with ACF-50 or Corrision X, 

but I'm wondering how you're going to spay it.  Will you use just the 

aerosol cans or do you have some spay equipment with a wand that will allow 

you to reach up inside the wings?



Randy Ferri

N789RF (reserved)

---

Tim Juhl

Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Location: "Thumb" of Michigan

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: Re: How many don't use some kind of anti-corrosion primer?

Ref ACF 50 -  Basically they use a pump-up garden sprayer with an extended tube.  You could probably make an extension up from aluminum tubing.  Caution, you want the ACF 50 to come out the end as a mist, not a stream.   



On my Cessnas they pulled off the wing tips and inserted the wand through the lightening holes in the ribs.  While holding the trigger the wand is pulled out leaving the mist behind.   Do that at the front and rear of the wing.   The fuselage is much easier.  You could use the spray can to do trim tabs and other tight areas.



A word of caution...you may see a little seepage along seams for awhile but it is minor (and proof that the stuff is working as advertised.)

_________________
______________
CFII
Champ L16A flying
Zodiac XL - Jabiru 3300A
Almost done! It'll fly in spring!

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