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Re Gear leg steps

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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:32 pm Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

Lynn 

 

Do you have any info as to how the Aluminum angle steps are fastened to the gear legs. 

 

Mine are fully faired but I can feel what appears to be a flat cross brace under the covering at about the right height. I was wondering whether Skystar recommended bolting through or just riveting to the tube gear. I'm always reluctant drilling holes in aircraft structures so I thought I would check first. 

 

best regards 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. [quote][b]

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

My instructions calls for "the landing gear on the Speedster needs to  

be fitted prior to the covering of the landing gear leg." But it does  

call for nut plates as the fastening method, drilled right into that  

"angle welded in the legs for this purpose." So you're right, there  

is a plate or angle welded between the tubes for the purposes of  

attaching your step. They also show a flat shield 4" x 7",  by .016"  

2024-T3 aluminum, with one corner trimmed off by 1 and 1/2" to match  

the angle of the gear leg. This shield is slid behind the step (and  

is held in place with the step-attaching bolts) and is to keep your  

feet from getting against the fabric. Could you cut a hole in the  

back side of the fabric to facilitate the nut plate installation?  

Then you could cut a circle of fabric to cover the holes in the  

fabric when done. They call for driven rivets to hold the nut plates  

in place, but I think to save having such a large hole as that  

operation would require, I'd use stainless POP rivets if they come in  

the size needed for the nut plates...usually 3/32".



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")

do not archive





On Aug 18, 2008, at 11:29 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Lynn



 Do you have any info as to how the Aluminum angle steps are  

 fastened to the gear legs.



 Mine are fully faired but I can feel what appears to be a flat  

 cross brace under the covering at about the right height. I was  

 wondering whether Skystar recommended bolting through or just  

 riveting to the tube gear. I'm always reluctant drilling holes in  

 aircraft structures so I thought I would check first.



 best regards



 Gary



 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the  

 addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of  

 this message by persons or entities other than the intended  

 recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,  

 kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

Why not use a rivet nut?



--- On Tue, 8/19/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Subject: Re: Re Gear leg steps

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 7:01 AM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>



My instructions calls for "the landing gear on the Speedster needs to  

be fitted prior to the covering of the landing gear leg." But it does  

call for nut plates as the fastening method, drilled right into that  

"angle welded in the legs for this purpose." So you're right,

there  

is a plate or angle welded between the tubes for the purposes of  

attaching your step. They also show a flat shield 4" x 7",  by

.016"  

2024-T3 aluminum, with one corner trimmed off by 1 and 1/2" to match  

the angle of the gear leg. This shield is slid behind the step (and  

is held in place with the step-attaching bolts) and is to keep your  

feet from getting against the fabric. Could you cut a hole in the  

back side of the fabric to facilitate the nut plate installation?  

Then you could cut a circle of fabric to cover the holes in the  

fabric when done. They call for driven rivets to hold the nut plates  

in place, but I think to save having such a large hole as that  

operation would require, I'd use stainless POP rivets if they come in  

the size needed for the nut plates...usually 3/32".



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")

do not archive





On Aug 18, 2008, at 11:29 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Lynn



 Do you have any info as to how the Aluminum angle steps are  

 fastened to the gear legs.



 Mine are fully faired but I can feel what appears to be a flat  

 cross brace under the covering at about the right height. I was  

 wondering whether Skystar recommended bolting through or just  

 riveting to the tube gear. I'm always reluctant drilling holes in  

 aircraft structures so I thought I would check first.



 best regards



 Gary



 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the  

 addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of  

 this message by persons or entities other than the intended  

 recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,  

 kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================


	






	
	


         [quote][b]

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

I've had aircraft mechanics say that they can loosen and then turn  

within the hole, leaving you with no easy way to remove the bolt.  

Since then I've seen the rivet nut up close and they seem to be ok,  

and I guess I'd use them if it was in a location where I could deal  

with it if it became a problem. My first choice would be the nut  

plate, though. It seems more secure to me.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")



On Aug 19, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Harold Flynn wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Why not use a rivet nut?



 --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Subject: Re: Re Gear leg steps

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 7:01 AM



 

 My instructions calls for "the landing gear on the Speedster needs  

 to be fitted prior to the covering of the landing gear leg." But it  

 does call for nut plates as the fastening method, drilled right  

 into that "angle welded in the legs for this purpose." So you're  

 right, there is a plate or angle welded between the tubes for the  

 purposes of attaching your step. They also show a flat shield 4" x  

 7", by .016" 2024-T3 aluminum, with one corner trimmed off by 1 and  

 1/2" to match the angle of the gear leg. This shield is slid behind  

 the step (and is held in place with the step-attaching bolts) and  

 is to keep your feet from getting against the fabric. Could you cut  

 a hole in the back side of the fabric to facilitate the nut plate  

 installation? Then you could cut a circle of fabric to cover the  

 holes in the fabric when done. They call for driven rivets to hold  

 the nut plates in place, but I think to save having such a large  

 hole as that operation would require, I'd use stainless POP rivets  

 if they come in the size needed for the nut plates...usually 3/32".  

 Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding  

 for repairs Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to  

 try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly") do not archive On Aug 18,  

 2008, at 11:29 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote: > > Lynn > > Do  

 you have any info as to how the Aluminum angle steps are > fastened  

 to the gear legs. > > Mine are fully faired but I can feel what  

 appears to be a flat > cross brace under the covering at about the  

 right height. I was > wondering whether Skystar recommended bolting  

 through or just > riveting to the tube gear. I'm always reluctant  

 drilling holes in > aircraft structures so I thought I would check  

 first. > > best regards > > Gary > > Gary Algate > Classic 4 jab  

 2200 > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is  

 confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any  

 review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message  

 by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is  

 prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly  

 notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the >  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- >  

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/ 

 contribution _- >  

 ============================================================



 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

Thanks Lynn, 

 

I finished painting the wheel pants last night - I ended up using epoxy undercoat followed by the Polytone thinned with Lacquer thinners with the first coat applied while the Epoxy was still tacky. Actually it went really well and the bond appears to be excellent. 



 I've made up the step and will either use a rivet nut as Harold suggests or if necessary cut the covering and just bolt it in place 

 

I was initially thinking of using some 3/16" Stainless  rivets but given the loads, bolting is probably the best option. 

 

Thanks to all 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

hflynn46531(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:49 am Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

You can buy a keyed rivnut. You have to cut a small notch in the hole you drilled to install it . It keeps the nut from ever turning. Page 101 in aircraft spruce 2008 cat. 



--- On Tue, 8/19/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

Subject: Re: Re Gear leg steps

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 12:02 PM



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>



I've had aircraft mechanics say that they can loosen and then turn  

within the hole, leaving you with no easy way to remove the bolt.  

Since then I've seen the rivet nut up close and they seem to be ok,  

and I guess I'd use them if it was in a location where I could deal  

with it if it became a problem. My first choice would be the nut  

plate, though. It seems more secure to me.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")



On Aug 19, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Harold Flynn wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Why not use a rivet nut?



 --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Subject: Re: Re Gear leg steps

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 7:01 AM



 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson

<lynnmatt(at)jps.net>  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   My instructions calls for "the landing gear on the Speedster needs  

 to be fitted prior to the covering of the landing gear leg." But it  

 does call for nut plates as the fastening method, drilled right  

 into that "angle welded in the legs for this purpose." So

you're  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   right, there is a plate or angle welded between the tubes for the  

 purposes of attaching your step. They also show a flat shield 4" x  

 7", by .016" 2024-T3 aluminum, with one corner trimmed off by 1

and  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   1/2" to match the angle of the gear leg. This shield is slid behind  

 the step (and is held in place with the step-attaching bolts) and  

 is to keep your feet from getting against the fabric. Could you cut  

 a hole in the back side of the fabric to facilitate the nut plate  

 installation? Then you could cut a circle of fabric to cover the  

 holes in the fabric when done. They call for driven rivets to hold  

 the nut plates in place, but I think to save having such a large  

 hole as that operation would require, I'd use stainless POP rivets  

 if they come in the size needed for the nut plates...usually 3/32".  

 Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding  

 for repairs Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to  

 try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to Fly") do not archive On

Aug 18,  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   2008, at 11:29 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote: > > Lynn > >

Do  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   you have any info as to how the Aluminum angle steps are > fastened  

 to the gear legs. > > Mine are fully faired but I can feel what  

 appears to be a flat > cross brace under the covering at about the  

 right height. I was > wondering whether Skystar recommended bolting  

 through or just > riveting to the tube gear. I'm always reluctant  

 drilling holes in > aircraft structures so I thought I would check  

 first. > > best regards > > Gary > > Gary Algate >

Classic 4 jab  
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   2200 > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is  

 confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any  

 review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message  

 by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is  

 prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly  

 notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the >  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- >  

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/ 

 contribution _- >  

 ============================================================



 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================


	






	
	


         [quote][b]

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:33 am Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

The bolting would probably be the strongest, as you might agree, but  

if it loosens, you'll have to deal with fabric removal and  

replacement again. I'm all for the nut plates. Maybe you could just  

slice the covering, install bolts or nut plates, and then recover/ 

tape/? the slices?



Let us know how the painting holds up..hopefully it will be a long  

time before any problems arise.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")

do not archive





On Aug 19, 2008, at 11:18 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Thanks Lynn,



 I finished painting the wheel pants last night - I ended up using  

 epoxy undercoat followed by the Polytone thinned with Lacquer  

 thinners with the first coat applied while the Epoxy was still  

 tacky. Actually it went really well and the bond appears to be  

 excellent.



 I've made up the step and will either use a rivet nut as Harold  

 suggests or if necessary cut the covering and just bolt it in place



 I was initially thinking of using some 3/16" Stainless  rivets but  

 given the loads, bolting is probably the best option.



 Thanks to all



 Gary



 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 jab 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the  

 addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of  

 this message by persons or entities other than the intended  

 recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,  

 kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

- The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

I was going to install a blind fastener in thin aluminum, and my  

aircraft mechanic friend warned against using the rivnuts, saying  

that in thin stock, if corrosion takes place, any  subsequent turning  

of the bolt may cause the key to shear out the material and leave you  

with a fastener that you can't get out. I figured out a way to get a  

nut plate in that particular location. In the case of Gary's landing  

gear step application, where the keyed rivnuts would go into thicker  

stock, then I'm sure that would probably be a successful application  

of the rivnut.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")

do not archive





On Aug 20, 2008, at 7:49 AM, Harold Flynn wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   You can buy a keyed rivnut. You have to cut a small notch in the  

 hole you drilled to install it . It keeps the nut from ever  

 turning. Page 101 in aircraft spruce 2008 cat.



 --- On Tue, 8/19/08, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 Subject: Re: Re Gear leg steps

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008, 12:02 PM



 

 I've had aircraft mechanics say that they can loosen and then turn  

 within the hole, leaving you with no easy way to remove the bolt.  

 Since then I've seen the rivet nut up close and they seem to be ok,  

 and I guess I'd use them if it was in a location where I could deal  

 with it if it became a problem. My first choice would be the nut  

 plate, though. It seems more secure to me. Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV  

 Speedster Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs Status:  

 "Condition grounded, but determined to try." (Pink  

 Floyd..."Learning to Fly") On Aug 19, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Harold  

 Flynn wrote: > Why not use a rivet nut? > > --- On Tue, 8/19/08,  

 Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote: > From: Lynn Matteson  

 <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> > Subject: Re: Re Gear leg steps >  

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2008,  

 7:01 AM > > 

 <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> > My instructions calls for "the landing gear on  

 the Speedster needs > to be fitted prior to the covering of the  

 landing gear leg." But it > does call for nut plates as the  

 fastening method, drilled right > into that "angle welded in the  

 legs for this purpose." So you're > right, there is a plate or  

 angle welded between the tubes for the > purposes of attaching your  

 step. They also show a flat shield 4" x > 7", by .016" 2024-T3  

 aluminum, with one corner trimmed off by 1 and > 1/2" to match the  

 angle of the gear leg. This shield is slid behind > the step (and  

 is held in place with the step-attaching bolts) and > is to keep  

 your feet from getting against the fabric. Could you cut > a hole  

 in the back side of the fabric to facilitate the nut plate >  

 installation? Then you could cut a circle of fabric to cover the >  

 holes in the fabric when done. They call for driven rivets to hold  

 > the nut plates in place, but I think to save having such a large  

 > hole as that operation would require, I'd use stainless POP  

 rivets > if they come in the size needed for the nut  

 plates...usually 3/32". > Lynn Matteson Kitfox IV Speedster Jabiru  

 2200, 562 hrs and holding > for repairs Status: "Condition  

 grounded, but determined to > try." (Pink Floyd..."Learning to  

 Fly") do not archive On Aug 18, > 2008, at 11:29 PM,  

 gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote: > > Lynn > > Do > you have any info  

 as to how the Aluminum angle steps are > fastened > to the gear  

 legs. > > Mine are fully faired but I can feel what > appears to be  

 a flat > cross brace under the covering at about the > right  

 height. I was > wondering whether Skystar recommended bolting >  

 through or just > riveting to the tube gear. I'm always reluctant >  

 drilling holes in > aircraft structures so I thought I would check  

 > first. > > best regards > > Gary > > Gary Algate > Classic 4 jab  

 > 2200 > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655 > > > This e-mail is >  

 confidential and it is intended only for the > addressees. Any >  

 review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of > this message >  

 by persons or entities other than the intended > recipient is >  

 prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, > kindly >  

 notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the > >  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 > > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which  

 may > > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- > >  

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/ >  

 contribution _- > >  

 ============================================================ > >  

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- > www.matronics.com/ 

 contribution _- >  

 ============================================================



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 Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: Re Gear leg steps

The thoughts that finally come into focus.  In the Rans installation of the 

trim tab servo, they cut a piece of  Laxan to surround the cut-out - similar 

to the doubler surrounding the cut-out for the bungees or lift strut attach 

brackets.  This is placed inside the fabric and glued in place with 

polytack.  Then a thin aluminum "inspection plate" is screwed to the Lexan 

with #4 1/4" pan head screws.  I did something similar when retrofitting the 

static port on my original IV.  This could be done on the bottom skin of the 

gear leg fairing allowing for nut plate installation.



Lowell

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