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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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 Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
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Clear and accurate as always Tim.
The ability to climb faster (Hartzell 3 blade composite) and descend
faster through altitude/weather is not necessarily a needed improvement
in the RV-10. Some will say it is already - PERFECT.
For those in the Pacific Northwest, these attributes and the ability to
stop mass more quickly (Tim James brake mod) can enhance an already
great design. Coming over the top of the Cascade Range from Bend to
Portland at 13,500 for 5,000 in front of a Boeing heavy, it was a real
eye-opener. Airspeed stayed constant at 150 KIAS, descent rate went
from 500 fpm to 2,000 fpm for just what seemed like a moment. Then
Approach Control said, "You are cleared in front of the Heavy on 10 mile
final for 28L, contact ground on 121.9.
What a rush.
YMMV
John Cox
Do Not Archive
All mods slow the build time and increase the price. Some like OBAM
that way.
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
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Great perspective, but again one of the most valuable scenarios is a
rapid descent through weather in the vicinity of imposing terrain. Some
believe that "Bozo Boards" allow the avoidance of shock cooling the
front two cylinders that get the brunt of the moisture laden air. When
a leisure descent with proper planning is executed, they would never be
needed. Doing a long series of 360s from 13,500 down to Tower control
would have been far less fun and possibly contribute to a problem. Time
of loiter in the soup tends to increase the tension and abuse on both
the airframe and pilot. The Pacific NW is where the ole Boeing SST and
French Concorde came to get first hand icing experience for production
certification. It grows out here naturally.
The RV-10 should never be considered a primary platform for hard IFR
with the chance of condensing nuclei on the leading edges.
Consideration of Precise Flight Speed Brakes(tm) have a measureable
value to a percentage of the fleet. The percentage that fly in such
conditions who have adequate and frequent training and prudently use the
tool.
Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
At my day job we have lots of turbo-props and yes they can create a lot
of drag in moving towards "disc" but the spoiler/slats seem to work a
lot like speed brakes when applied.
John Cox
Do Not Archive
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MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
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Re sailplanes - most do have spoilers but they are used primarily for
landing approach control instead of or in conjunction with flaps. In an
aircraft with abundant lift and no engine, spoilers are a superior means
of approach path control. They can even be retracted without concern.
Flaps-only gliders exist but they are a bit more challenging to fly.
I've never heard them called 'bozo boards' in glider circles (ouch) but
it may seem appropriate when they are used to avoid being sucked into a
cumulus and PCA over the Sierras.
Bill "a glider guider before a Maule driver" Watson
John Cox wrote:
| Quote: | Energy Efficiency is even more apparent with sailplanes ... so I guess I
am lost why some use "Bozo Boards".
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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:27 pm Post subject: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
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Myron,
When the message was first posted, being the "devil's advocate" of the list, I composed a response that pretty much echos your sentiments about speed brakes on prop planes-then I deleted it. You version was much more delicate however:-)
The need for speed brakes on a piston prop plane is the result of poor planning and/or piloting and an wasteful use of potential energy. I've seen sailplanes with spoilers, but I've never seen one with speed brakes-but then maybe I need to get out more. Spoiler are a different animal from speed brakes. Killing the lift on a wing is a little different than inducing a massive amount of drag while maintaining power. Oh, Boeing never got beyond the design stage for their SST and the two prototypes were never completed so I'm not sure how their SST was doing "real" icing certification testing.
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
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ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:55 pm Post subject: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
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William,
I really missed meeting you at OSH, and contrary to you self given title of devils advocate I find your post thought provking from angels I, along with other unadmitting members of this list may have not thought of. I would like to take the time to point out that for the first time, you and John Cox are in agreement!!!! And your answer was easily understood!!! But alas you reverted to a dig in your closing comments, regaining your devils advocate title...which had me cracking up...This is the stuff that makes this list not only informative and educational but down right entertaining. Bravo!
FWIW, I miss the uneducational and misinformation but none the less entertaining posts of our long lost member James McClow.
Rick Sked
40185
do not archive
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wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
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"devils advocate "
Actually, I did not give myself that title. It was bestowed on me a while back by none other than John C.. So now I like to remind him at each turn:-)
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Speed brake installation kit for RV-10 |
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Keep in mind that it is an absolute NO NO to use speed brakes in
potential icing conditions. Very likely they either won't retract when
desired, or will retract asymetrically. So forget about them for
getting down through icing layer. You might use them to slow to
desired approach speed, before commencing descent, but then you would
have to rely on prop drag will penetrating the icing layer.
On Sat, Aug 23, 2008 at 4:28 PM, William Curtis <wcurtis(at)nerv10.com> wrote:
[quote]
"devils advocate "
Actually, I did not give myself that title. It was bestowed on me a while back by none other than John C.. So now I like to remind him at each turn:-)
William
http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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