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Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

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brothapig(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:45 am Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}  I finally made the jump and started to rivet my wing spars for my 701.  All seemed to be going well C and I've got about 6 rivets in one spar.  I started from the center C all rivets look good C but when I look at my spar from the end C it is starting to bend in towards the formed side of the rivet.  I can tell that it is bending at the rivet locations.  It is really noticeable C and I hesitate to go any further until I figure out why.  

Does anyone have any ideas as to why my spars are starting to bend in?  I shimmed everything straight before I set any of the rivets (down to 1mm).  You can see the blocks in the pictures.  Any insight would be helpful.

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bobkat(at)btinet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

I can't seem to log in.  O'm pretty computer  illiterate but if this reaches someone can someone post it for me?  I can  read the posts but can't post myself! Thanks!

  

 Just wondering if anyone has put a BRS (soft pack  1350) in a 701 and where it was located.  I put one in at the rear of the  baggage compartment and though it was still in CG range the plane was barely  controllable at slow speeds!  I moved the battery to in front of the  firewall and added 12 punds of weight to the front of the engine mount but the  CG is still pretty far back.   Has anyone had the same problem and if  so, would moving the BRS forward to the front of the baggage compartment solve  the problem?  

 Even though the XCG was within limits though aft,  I'm not sure I trust my weighing or math or the 11 to 20 range!  Anyone had  any experience with this??

  

 Thanks  Bob  North Dakota.    



 [quote]   ---

n752ms(at)softcom.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Ryan.

  

 If it is any consolation my factory spars are about one  inch off, from the center out to the ends.  I had to anchor it straight to  the table before I could fab the rest of the wing.

  

 Mark S.

 701/912ULS

 Just a little more painting to do.

  

 [quote]   ---

brothapig(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Actually C it is some consolation.  If this is just the way it happens C great.  Then I will continue.  I just figured something was wrong with the way I was doing it.  I have noticed C however C that my striking rod was just ever-so-slightly off (hitting at some un-noticeable angle) so that the shop head was being formed off to one side.  This is something that I have fixed already C so I think I will end up drilling out my six rivets anyway.  

  

 Thank you so much for the response.  I figured I might get some bow C but I never figured on and inch. 

  

 I will also be looking for any other responses.  

  

 Thanks again Mark.





   

 From: n752ms(at)softcom.net

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: FW: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Date: Mon C 1 Sep 2008 12:25:47 -0700

   .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Ryan.

  

 If it is any consolation my factory spars are about one inch off C from the center out to the ends.  I had to anchor it straight to the table before I could fab the rest of the wing.

  

 Mark S.

 701/912ULS

 Just a little more painting to do.

  

 [quote] ---

agibeaut

Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 64

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:51 am Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

My factory spars were also "curved" a little but no need to worry. I just struck a chalk line on the table as the instructions indicate. When I was ready to attach the skin, I jigged the spar straight by screwing small pcs. of wood to the table on both sides of the spar to keep it on the line. Worked out fine.



--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Mark Sherman <n752ms(at)softcom.net> wrote:



[quote] From: Mark Sherman <n752ms(at)softcom.net>

 Subject: Re: FW: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 2:25 PM

 Ryan.

 

 If it is any consolation my factory spars are about one

 inch off, from the center out to the ends.  I had to anchor

 it straight to the table before I could fab the rest of the

 wing.

 

 Mark S.

 701/912ULS

 Just a little more painting to do.

 

   ---

ch701builder

Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 119
Location: N38.9947,W105.1305,ALT. 9,100'

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Ryan,

Are you doing every hole from then center out, or every-other-hole from the center out?



I haven't started my spars yet, but was hoping to start them this Winter.

Keep us informed with your final results!!!!



Keith

CH701 -- scratch

N 38.9940

W 105.1305

Alt. 9,100'

************************************************************************************************

--

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

I had originally tried to rivet my (CH601-HD) spars with a heavy hammer and a rod. It did not go well - I don't quite recall what exactly was the problem, but it was bad. I pretty much trashed all the parts and started over.

 So I enlisted the help of a fellow EAA member, and we did it with a pneumatic riveter, in the best RV style.

Given by bad experience, I kept the spar web, extrusions and doublers in place with the smooth end of drill bits (I had many, worn out and new ones). Clecoes allow parts to be offset by I few thousands - this may explain your problem.

 

Good luck



Carlos

CH601-HD, plans

Montreal, Canada 



 

[quote]

 ---

rvickski(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Ryan, if it is crowning and really noticeable after 6 rivets something is not right. Crowning comes from distortion. I'll bet it is crowning away from the flange. if so, the setting method would be suspect to me. It sounds like you are using the hammer method which is less desirable than a gun and bucking bar which is less desirable than a rivet squeezer. Are you using an actual rivet set on the manufactured head? If not you should and minimal strikes to set the rivet.  I became so anal when I was at this stage that I built an electric over hydraulic squeezer. Each squeeze the same as the last and the results were a blemish free spar nearly arrow straight and the job went from an ordeal to pleasant one day chore. If you are anywhere near south central Michigan we can hook up and git er  done.

Roy



---

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Hello List,

  

 I never checked if the spars in my kit  were stright or not (probably was straight  ...  

 Never thought about it.

 We just fix them to the table  and started building the wings...

 200 hrs later flies great (and straight).

  

 Saludos

 Gary Gower.

 Flying from Chapala, Mexico.

 701 912S    200 plus hrs...

   Eleven Commandment:   You shall trust yer Designer and Kit Factory...    

 



--- On Mon, 9/1/08, Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 [quote]From: Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: FW: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 3:51 PM



[quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: Art Gibeaut <aagibeaut(at)yahoo.com>  My factory spars were also "curved" a little but no need to worry. I just struck a chalk line on the table as the instructions indicate. When I was ready to attach the skin, I jigged the spar straight by screwing small pcs. of wood to the table on both sides of the spar to keep it on the line. Worked out fine.  --- On Mon, 9/1/08, Mark Sherman <n752ms(at)softcom.net> wrote:  > From: Mark Sherman <n752ms(at)softcom.net> > Subject: Re: FW: Problems with riveting the 701 spars... > To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Monday, September 1, 2008, 2:25 PM > Ryan. >  > If it is any consolation my factory spars are about one > inch off, from the center out to the ends.  I had to anchor > it straight to the table before I could fab the rest of the > wing. >  > Mark S. > 701/912ULS > Just a little more painting to do. >  >   ---

rvickski(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Upon re reading you post, bending toward the shop head suggests lack of support of the manufactured head. offer still stands.



---

bryanekholm

Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Minnesota

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

I scratch built my spars using a rivet gun and bucking bar and had the same curvature, probably about an inch, when it was complete.  I had the spar angles secured to the table so I didn't even notice until I was done riveting.  The blows of the rivet gun probably distorts the aluminum a bit more that squeezing the rivets would.  Squeezing would be the way to go if you can borrow or purchase a pneumatic squeezer.  They are expensive.



Bryan Ekholm

_________________
Bryan Ekholm

brothapig(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Thanks everyone for responding to my email.  I appreciate all of the insight.  I have since drilled out my six or seven rivets C and the spar returned to straight.  What I plan on doing next is to set up the spar so that my rivet location will be slightly higher than the ends C and I will start with one rivet in the center of the spar C but then will set a couple rivets on each end.  Then I will fill in between the rivets until the spar is riveted.  Hopefully this will minimize any curving.

  

 Someone mentioned that the hammer method for setting rivets is probably the least desirable.  Unfortunately C I do not have access to a rivet gun C and I definitely don't have access to a power squeezer.  Maybe someday.  I will let everyone know what happens with the spars C hopefully in the next few weeks.

  

  

 Ryan Vechinski





   

 > Subject: Re: Problems with riveting the 701 spars..

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: ekholmbk(at)lakedalelink.net

 Date: Mon C 1 Sep 2008 20:52:30 -0700

 To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com

 

 --> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "bryanekholm" <ekholmbk(at)lakedalelink.net>

 

 I scratch built my spars using a rivet gun and bucking bar and had the same curvature C probably about an inch C when it was complete. I had the spar angles secured to the table so I didn't even notice until I was done riveting. The blows of the rivet gun probably distorts the aluminum a bit more that squeezing the rivets would. Squeezing would be the way to go if you can borrow or purchase a pneumatic squeezer. They are expensive.

 

 Bryan Ekholm

 

 --------

 Bryan Ekholm

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=202094#202094

 

 

 

 

 

 

 > 

 

 


	


  [quote][b]

John Bolding

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 1:29 am Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

If you have compressed air I'll send you my gun .   Contact me off list if you wish to borrow them.     John

 [quote]   ---

carlossa52(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 5:16 am Post subject: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Cheap insurance, can't hurt: place a bunch of drill bits (smooth end of course) in the rivet holes to ensure things do not move while you rivet.



Good luck



Carlos



 2008/9/2 Ryan Vechinski <brothapig(at)hotmail.com (brothapig(at)hotmail.com)>

[quote]     Thanks everyone for responding to my email.  I appreciate all of the insight.  I have since drilled out my six or seven rivets, and the spar returned to straight.  What I plan on doing next is to set up the spar so that my rivet location will be slightly higher than the ends, and I will start with one rivet in the center of the spar, but then will set a couple rivets on each end.  Then I will fill in between the rivets until the spar is riveted.  Hopefully this will minimize any curving.

   

 Someone mentioned that the hammer method for setting rivets is probably the least desirable.  Unfortunately, I do not have access to a rivet gun, and I definitely don't have access to a power squeezer.  Maybe someday.  I will let everyone know what happens with the spars, hopefully in the next few weeks.

   

  

 Ryan Vechinski



[b]

kmccune

Joined: 22 Sep 2007
Posts: 577
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Problems with riveting the 701 spars...

Class...right there!         



[quote="John Bolding"]If you have compressed air I'll send you my gun .   Contact me off list if you wish to borrow them.     John

  	  Quote: 	
		     --- 	




do not archive

Kevin

_________________
â€œAlways do what you are afraid to do.â€
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"Real freedom is the sustained act of being an individual." WW - 2009

"Life is a good deal...it's worth it" Feb 1969
Dorothy McCune

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