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Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

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Goodone

Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

I have been using Honda HP4M semi-synthetic motorcycle oil in my Rotax 912 UL powered aircraft. I have about 500 hrs. on the engine.  This oil contains molybdenum and I have been told that the folks at Lockwood say that it is a good oil to use if your engine is not equipped with a slipper-clutch. The story goes that Rotax will never approve this oil because they view Honda as a direct competitor. The problem that I am having is that I now can only purchase the Honda oil in 20W-50 and I feel that is a bit too heavy a weight for winter operations. I have been thinking of going to Mobil 1 motorcycle oil for the winter months and giving it a try. Are others using the Honda oil and do folks see any problems with switching to Mobil 1?

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jackandval

Joined: 18 Jul 2007
Posts: 21
Location: blairsville, GA

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

Why not used the new Rotax approved Aeroshell sport made for Rotax engines?

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hgmckay

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 397

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

I don't know where you are physically located, so I don't know your yearly

environmental flying conditions (i.e. temperature). I live in North Carolina

and have a 912 UL, and have been using Mobile 1 MX4T 10W40 for about two

years. This oil had a name change recently. It is now sold as Mobile 1

Racing 4T. It is the same oil, just sold with a new name. I guess the word

"Racing" helps sell the product. All that said it is an excellent oil. I

have had no problems. My engine has almost 150 hours. I would recommend it!



Hugh McKay

Allegro 2000

Rotax 912 UL

N661WW



--

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Roger Lee

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1464
Location: Tucson, Az.

Posted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

MULTI-VISCOSITY OILS



Viscosity refers to a liquid's resistance to flow, or in the case of motor oil, how well it flows at low and high temperatures. Oil with a high viscosity can't flow as quickly to engine parts at lower temperatures. A lower-viscosity oil is more likely to fail at high temps.



Multi-viscosity oils (sometimes called multi-weight or multi-grade) were created to provide the best characteristics of high and low viscosity. It's a common misconception that multi-viscosity oil changes weight-thickening or thinning-as temperature changes (e.g. that 20W-50 oil will be a 20-weight when it's cold and a 50-weight when it's hot). What really happens is that polymers used to create multi-grade oil chemically react to inhibit thinning at high temperatures. At an operating temperature of 212 to 215 degrees, 20W-50 oil will not thin more than 50-weight oil would at that temperature and will have the characteristics of 50-weight when it's hot, but will never be thicker than the 20W base weight.



The more polymers in the oil, the wider the potential viscosity range-but there is a drawback. Polymer is plastic and can build up inside the engine, preventing the rings from seating in the cylinders, and creating heavy deposits in the heads. For that reason, multi-grade oils with a wide viscosity range (such as 10W-40 and 20W-50) are generally not recommended by Pure Power!

Instead of making motor oil with the conventional petroleum base, "true" synthetic oil base stocks are artificially synthesized. Synthetic oils are derived from either Group III mineral base oils, Group IV, or Group V non-mineral bases. True synthetics include classes of lubricants like synthetic esters as well as "others" like GTL (Methane Gas-to-Liquid) (Group V) and polyalpha-olefins (Group IV). Higher purity and therefore better property control theoretically means synthetic oil has good mechanical properties at extremes of high and low temperatures. The molecules are made large and "soft" enough to retain good viscosity at higher temperatures, yet branched molecular structures interfere with solidification and therefore allow flow at lower temperatures. Thus, although the viscosity still decreases as temperature increases, these synthetic motor oils have a much improved viscosity index over the traditional petroleum base. Their specially designed properties allow a wider temperature range at higher and lower temperatures and often include a lower pour point. With their improved viscosity index, true synthetic oils need little or no viscosity index improvers, which are the oil components most vulnerable to thermal and mechanical degradation as the oil ages, and thus they do not degrade as quickly as traditional motor oils. However, they still fill up with particulate matter, although at a lower rate compared to conventional oils, and the oil filter still fills and clogs up over time. So, periodic oil and filter changes should still be done with synthetic oil; but some synthetic oil suppliers suggest that the intervals between oil changes can be longer, sometimes as long as 10,000 - 15,000 miles.



With improved efficiency, synthetic lubricants are designed to make wear and tear on gears far less than with petroleum-based lubricants, reduce the incidence of oil oxidation and sludge formation, and allow for "long life" extended drain intervals. Today, synthetic lubricants are available for use in modern automobiles on nearly all lubricated components, potentially with superior performance and longevity as compared to non-synthetic alternatives. Some tests[citation needed] have shown that fully synthetic oil is superior to conventional oil in many respects, providing better engine protection, performance, and better flow in cold starts than petroleum-based motor oil.



When choosing a motor oil for your bike, it is very important to understand the temperature ranges that you use it in. Colder weather conditions require a multi grade oil with a fairly low "cold" viscosity. If you are strictly drag racing on very hot days, you would use a fairly thick "mono-grade" oil. Your bike's owners manual has some rough guidelines, from there you need to experiment. I live just north of San Francisco where the coldest temperature that I will ever start my bike in is around 50F on a day that could get up to 93F. This fact is very important and guides the choices in terms of viscosity. 



SAE Motor Oil Grade  cSt (at)100 C  

0W - 3.8  

5W 3.8 - 4.1  

10W 4.1 - 5.6  

15W -5.6- 

##W-20 5.6 - 9.3  

##W-30 9.3 - 12.5  

##W-40 12.5 - 16.3  

##W-50

 16.3 - 21.9  

##W-60 21.9 - 26.1

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_________________
Roger Lee
Tucson, Az.
Rotax Instructor & Rotax IRC
Light Sport Repairman
Home 520-574-1080 TRY HOME FIRST
Cell 520-349-7056

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

Roger,



When you copy and paste a long treatise on oil viscosity (or other

subject) please reference the source so we will be able to evaluate

its validity. Also, I'm sure its author would appreciate the credit.

Lacking this, one might assume that you are the author.



I'm not a petroleum engineer so I rely on published charts for

acceptable OAT minimums when selecting oil viscosity ratings, which

follows:



20w-50   Min 0F

15w-40   Min -10F

10w-30   Min -20F

 5w-30    Min -30F



Thom in Buffalo

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Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Goodone

Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 49

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: Re: Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

Thanks folks for all the information. I do want to say that I have felt that a semi-synthetic oil would be best for use in the 912 even if you were not using 100LL. The major reason for this is that it is my understanding that conventional oils are supposed to stay attached to metals better than synthetic oil and thus protect from rusting better than the 100% synthetic. Since aircraft engines typically sit for long periods of time compared to autos, it would seem to suggest that the semi-synthetic would be the way to go since it would protect a bit better. Now Shell has come out with their new oil and it is a semi-synthetic. The Honda oil is like the Shell and it contains the moly. However, I can't seem to get the lower weight oil anymore.

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rampil

Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Use of Honda HP4M Oil in 912 UL

Keep in mind that Rotax  will simply not provide guidance on Honda products, good bad or otherwise since the are a competitor in motor and related products.



Honda oil might be fine, but you will use it at your own risk

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