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Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

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robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

Has anyone designed / built an intersecting nose gear fairing that

transitions from the lower cowl to the nose gear? This seems like an

important place to manage the airflow (directly behind the prop) where

sharp angles intersect. All the other Vans A models have a fearing in

this location.



Robin

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 9:59 pm Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

I've been playing with this area but it's complicated by the fact that only

the '10 has a hinged nose gear. It almost seems like a fairing doesn't buy

much after allowance is made for the gear leg movement. So far I have just

covered up as much of the slot forward of the leg as possible-that slot is

pretty large to allow for cowl removal-to help with engine cooling. I have a

real issue with cooling and I'm adding a second oil cooler. Just too hot

here for 1 cooler. I have to keep the engine in my refrigerator until I'm

ready to fly as it is! Actually, my worst flight was out of IPL  Imperial

one evening, OAT was about 95 and we were stuck on the ground for a few

minutes, oil temp was 230 on takeoff, it hit 245 before I landed. Changed

the oil but I don't want too see that again. Too many times with OAT's

approaching 100 on takeoff I have to reduce power, keep mix full rich and

flatten climb to keep temps down. Once OAT drops below 80 or so I'm fine. We

frequently have a 10 degree inversion here with OAT on the ground above 100.

Albert Gardner

Yuma, AZ

PS: after seeing the small ice chests sold at Oshkosh and elsewhere to

provide some cooling in the cabin I found a tent cooler at Cabellas that is

much cheaper. Fits between the rear seats, blows cool air forward, runs on

rechargeable batteries or a 12v plugin. Only $80 and far cheaper than the

ones sold for airplanes.



--

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

Albert,

	Thanks for the note. We have discovered the drawback of the

standard oil cooler (high temps) and will be playing with the Airflow

2008 X oil cooler designed for aircraft up to 390 Hp. We hope to be able

to control oil temps with this mod instead of adding side or lower cowl

louvers. We should know more in a week. Unfortunately the larger oil

cooler does not resolve an apparent differential pressure issue in the

SJ cowl & plenum preventing max flow of air over the cooler fins.

	I have a concept in mind that would place a shroud over the

outlet side of the oil cooler and terminates on the bottom of the cowl.

In flight the venturi effect should draw the air through the cooling

fins at pretty high velocity helping to cool the oil. I am sure there

are unintended consequences to this design that I can't yet comprehend.

Additionally it falls well outside of the KISS principle. 

	I would love to see photos of your dual oil cooler if at all

handy.

	BTW I asked the question "off line" why one would not place a

NACA vent on the lower cowl to drive air through the oil cooler. The

response we received is that NACA vents are extremely efficient when no

back pressure is present but when there is enough back pressure the NACA

vent "plugs up" with the resisting air which results in basically no

airflow through the scat tubing and thus no air through the cooling

fins. Exactly the opposite of the desired effect. Whoops.

	On a lighter note. I was on my regular commute in the 6A

climbing through 7,000' when I heard a BANG behind me. An unusual sound

like that gets your attention, and quick. Because my plan was to level

off at 7,500'that is when I am pulling back power, prop and refining

mixture, engaging the altitude hold, checking temperatures, looking for

traffic, talking to Santa Barbara Approach... Heck, I don't have time to

look for anything that may be falling off the plane. In those moments

the mind races, going over anything and everything that could account

for that noise. Did I mention it was a BANG? The plane felt fine, all

seemed in order, nothing unusual. Unable to account for the source of

the sound I continued with my flight plan staying vigilant as to

anything unusual. Once on the ground I gave the plane a once over and

found the cause of the noise. I was transporting a large bag of wheat

free crackers for my Mother-in-law "special" diet. The altitude change

burst the Mylar style container in my baggage compartment. The good news

is I was able to sample the crackers on my drive home. Turns out I

prefer the regular crackers.



Robin  

--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

Albert, I have been anticipating the same kind of problem, and hopefully the vents I added on the sides will help.  I have a couple of extra vents if your interested.  

Don



--- On Thu, 9/18/08, Albert Gardner <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com> wrote:



From: Albert Gardner <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>

Subject: RE: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 10:58 PM




<ibspud(at)roadrunner.com>



I've been playing with this area but it's complicated by the fact that

only

the '10 has a hinged nose gear. It almost seems like a fairing doesn't

buy

much after allowance is made for the gear leg movement. So far I have just

covered up as much of the slot forward of the leg as possible-that slot is

pretty large to allow for cowl removal-to help with engine cooling. I have a

real issue with cooling and I'm adding a second oil cooler. Just too hot

here for 1 cooler. I have to keep the engine in my refrigerator until I'm

ready to fly as it is! Actually, my worst flight was out of IPL  Imperial

one evening, OAT was about 95 and we were stuck on the ground for a few

minutes, oil temp was 230 on takeoff, it hit 245 before I landed. Changed

the oil but I don't want too see that again. Too many times with OAT's

approaching 100 on takeoff I have to reduce power, keep mix full rich and

flatten climb to keep temps down. Once OAT drops below 80 or so I'm fine.

We

frequently have a 10 degree inversion here with OAT on the ground above 100

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

Great story Robin.  Glad it turned out the way it did.  Don



--- On Thu, 9/18/08, Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com> wrote:

 [quote]From: Robin Marks <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>

Subject: RE: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 11:43 PM



[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Robin Marks" <robin1(at)mrmoisture.com>  Albert, 	Thanks for the note. We have discovered the drawback of the standard oil cooler (high temps) and will be playing with the Airflow 2008 X oil cooler designed for aircraft up to 390 Hp. We hope to be able to control oil temps with this mod instead of adding side or lower cowl louvers. We should know more in a week. Unfortunately the larger oil cooler does not resolve an apparent differential pressure issue in the SJ cowl & plenum preventing max flow of air over the cooler fins. 	I have a concept in mind that would place a shroud over the outlet side of the oil cooler and terminates on the bottom of the cowl. In flight the venturi effect should draw the air through the cooling fins at pretty high velocity helping to cool the oil. I am sure there are unintended consequences to this design that I can't yet comprehend. Additionally it falls well outside of the KISS principle.  	I would love to see photos of your dual oil cooler if at all handy. 	BTW I asked the question "off line" why one would not place a NACA vent on the lower cowl to drive air through the oil cooler. The response we received is that NACA vents are extremely efficient when no back pressure is present but when there is enough back pressure the NACA vent "plugs up" with the resisting air which results in basically no airflow through the scat tubing and thus no air through the cooling fins. Exactly the opposite of the desired effect. Whoops. 	On a lighter note. I was on my regular commute in the 6A climbing through 7,000' when I heard a BANG behind me. An unusual sound like that gets your attention, and quick. Because my plan was to level off at 7,500'that is when I am pulling back power, prop and refining mixture, engaging the altitude hold, checking temperatures, looking for traffic, talking to Santa Barbara Approach... Heck, I don't have time to look for anything that may be falling off the plane. In those moments the mind races, going over anything and everything that could account for that noise. Did I mention it was a BANG? The plane felt fine, all seemed in order, nothing unusual. Unable to account for the source of the sound I continued with my flight plan staying vigilant as to anything unusual. Once on the ground I gave the plane a once over and found the cause of the noise. I was transporting a large bag of wheat free crackers for my Mother-in-law "special" diet. The altitude change burst the Mylar style container in my baggage compartment. The good news is I was able to sample the crackers on my drive home. Turns out I prefer the regular crackers.  Robin     --

_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

Don, 



You need to quit showing that you have access to machine press and tumbler making all those nifty parts.. 



Rick Sked 



40185 



do not archive 

---

ricksked(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

One mod I saw at OSH was a metal shield that was curved and attached to the top of the oil cooler. The shield directed the air coming through the cooler down and back towards the cowl exit instead of forward and down in the cowl...I'm putting the side vents on as well and really considering a airflow cooler after we see what happens on the first flight: http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/engine__parts.html 



Rick Sked 



40185 

---

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

Rick, the difference is we are going to install the 2008 X not the 2006 X. The 2006 X is for engines up to 280 Hp while the 2008 X is for engines up to 390 Hp. Also keep in mind we have the James cowl & plenum which definitely has a different pressure situation under the cowl.   

Our plan is to change on thing at a time and test the differences. Our last resort will be to add the gills.  

   

Robin  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Sked

 Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 9:06 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RV10-List: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing  

  

  

   

One mod I saw at OSH was a metal shield that was curved and attached to the top of the oil cooler. The shield directed the air coming through the cooler down and back towards the cowl exit instead of forward and down in the cowl...I'm putting the side vents on as well and really considering a airflow cooler after we see what happens on the first flight: http://www.aviationtechproducts.com/html/engine__parts.html  

Rick Sked  

40185

 ---

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

Al can confirm this but I think the big difference in the Cabellas vs. the one you see at OSH is that the Cabellas simply blows air over the ice.  This will cause a lot of humidity and burn through the ice much faster.  The one you see in OSH is actually a closed loop system that uses a heat exchanger and pumps the cold water through that rather than just blowing air over ice.  IIRC



Michael



--

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Nose Gear Intersecting Fairing

This is the area that an intersection fairing would have to cover and allow

for gear movement. For what it's worth, in order to get my lower cowl off

with a 3 blade prop I find it easiest to pull the tail down letting the nose

gear drop and providing additional clearance for the cowl.

Albert Gardner

Yuma, AZ

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_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

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