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Check your carb floats!!

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grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

Since I am new to light sport flying I don't know if this is a direct result of using gas with ethanol or not.



I pulled my float bowls the other day and examined the floats and found one that was literally flaking apart! I took a file and scrubbed on it to remove the flaking outside plastic covering then i used my finger nail and the next thing I new my nail sunk into the foam core of the float. If I had not pulled the bowl it is possible that the flakes of the outer covering of the float could have stopped up the jets in my carbs. So that float is useless now. Luckily I had a spare on hand and have 3 more ordered.



These are bing 54 carbs

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

That's a scary thought!!!  I hope it isn't related to the ethanol use, but

it could well be.



Why don't you cut your bad float into pieces and soak the pieces in

various test solutions:  ethanol, isopropyl alcohol, and maybe some cheap

whiskey and see if the damage accelerates.

--------------------------------------------------------




Since I am new to light sport flying I don't know if this is a direct

result of using gas with ethanol or not.



I pulled my float bowls the other day and examined the floats and found

one that was literally flaking apart! I took a file and scrubbed on it to

remove the flaking outside plastic covering then i used my finger nail and

the next thing I new my nail sunk into the foam core of the float. If I

had not pulled the bowl it is possible that the flakes of the outer

covering of the float could have stopped up the jets in my carbs. So that

float is useless now. Luckily I had a spare on hand and have 3 more

ordered.



These are bing 54 carbs





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6369#206369

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

> That's a scary thought!!!  I hope it isn't related to the ethanol use, 

but

 	  Quote: 	
		   it could well be.




	




Jim Dunn:



If it was caused by alcohol we'd all be falling out of the sky.  I have been 

burning 10% for a long time with no problems.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Jimmy Young

Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 182
Location: Missouri City, TX

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

I flew my 503 for 105 hrs. between Oct. '07 and May '08 using service  

station purchased 87 octane ethanol-laced fuel probably 90% of the  

time. I checked my float bowls regularly and never had any problems  

with the floats disintegrating. They were the original floats that  

came with engine which was first flown in '03.



Jimmy Young

FS II, Houston

_________________
Jimmy Young
Missouri City, TX
Kolb FS II/HKS 700

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

That's a relief -- thanks.



So far I haven't used gasohol in my Kolb.  I know of only one station in 2

states that sells it; fortunately it is only 5 miles away so I buy all my

aircraft fuel there.



Jim

-----------------------------




I flew my 503 for 105 hrs. between Oct. '07 and May '08 using service

station purchased 87 octane ethanol-laced fuel probably 90% of the

time. I checked my float bowls regularly and never had any problems

with the floats disintegrating. They were the original floats that

came with engine which was first flown in '03.



Jimmy Young

FS II, Houston

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Check your carb floats!!

Grant R.



Thanks for the Warning    The condition you described would surely have caused an engine failure sooner or later had you not caught it.   I will inspect my floats before I fly again.   I will also tell the other Rotax guys that I fly with your story, and advise them to check their floats also.  It takes only a minute to check, and could prevent a disastrous result.  



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:48 am Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

Grant,



This float condition is most likely NOT from using ethanol, but rather  

from  using a carb gum cleaner on them.  I never use carb gum cleaners  

on plastic parts. It has been known to have the effect on plastic that  

you describe.



Gene



On Sep 26, 2008, at 4:46 PM, grantr wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 >



 Since I am new to light sport flying I don't know if this is a  

 direct result of using gas with ethanol or not.



 I pulled my float bowls the other day and examined the floats and  

 found one that was literally flaking apart! I took a file and  

 scrubbed on it to remove the flaking outside plastic covering then i  

 used my finger nail and the next thing I new my nail sunk into the  

 foam core of the float. If I had not pulled the bowl it is possible  

 that the flakes of the outer covering of the float could have  

 stopped up the jets in my carbs. So that float is useless now.  

 Luckily I had a spare on hand and have 3 more ordered.



 These are bing 54 carbs





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 6369#206369

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: Re: Check your carb floats!!

GrantR,



I checked the carburetor floats on my Rotax 912-S as I said I would, and I have the beginning of the same condition you describe       The " Paint " or whatever it is they use to coat the floats with is just starting to bubble and peel on ONE out of the four floats...   There was no debris coming loose in the carburetor bowl YET, but it was well on its way.  I could easily break off some pieces of this paint like material with my finger that had separated, and was well on its way to falling off by itself.



My floats are about 2 years old, and as far as I know have never been used with ethanol.  I have also NEVER used carb cleaner, or starter fluid, or anything in these carbs...  My bowls are always so clean when I take them off I could drink wine out of them     I have no idea what caused this to happen, but I will be replacing all the floats in the engine as if one has begun this process of shedding its covering, the rest are probably not far behind !  Attached is a picture of the bad float, its a bit hard to see, but look around the edges of the float where the paint is starting to bubble up.



Thanks for the warning Grant, it probably saved me a nasty surprise !



Mike

Float.JPG

Description:

Float Covering, " Paint " like material bubbling and comming off the float :(

Filesize:

214.55 KB

Viewed:

412 Time(s)

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

Mike, good thing you inspected.  Looks like you guys have uncovered a  

problem.  There may have been

a bad production batch with no way to know who got the bad ones.  As  

far as ethanol goes,  unless

you have been using only avgas you have been exposed to ethanol.   

Nearly all auto gas has some

in it now.  Around here there is no pump labeling either.



Ethanol is a very universal solvent when in contact with polymers.  

Very similar to acetone with

regard to both water and mineral solvent mix capabilities.



There will be more problems showing up down the road with both  

aircraft and autos.

BB



On 2, Oct 2008, at 11:41 PM, JetPilot wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 GrantR,



 I checked the carburetor floats on my Rotax 912-S as I said I  

 would, and I have the beginning of the same condition you describe   

 [Shocked]     The " Paint " or whatever it is they use to coat the  

 floats with is just starting to bubble and peel on ONE out of the  

 four floats...   There was no debris coming loose in the carburetor  

 bowl YET, but it was well on its way.  I could easily break off  

 some pieces of this paint like material with my finger that had  

 separated, and was well on its way to falling off by itself.



 My floats are about 2 years old, and as far as I know have never  

 been used with ethanol.  I have also NEVER used carb cleaner, or  

 starter fluid, or anything in these carbs...  My bowls are always  

 so clean when I take them off I could drink wine out of them      

 I have no idea what caused this to happen, but I will be replacing  

 all the floats in the engine as if one has begun this process of  

 shedding its covering, the rest are probably not far behind !   

 Attached is a picture of the bad float, its a bit hard to see, but  

 look around the edges of the float where the paint is starting to  

 bubble up.



 Thanks for the warning Grant, it probably saved me a nasty surprise !



 Mike



 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast  

 as you could have !!!



 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 7212#207212





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/float_400.jpg

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

More stuff:

Marvel-schebler has had a similar go-around with float materials, in  

some cases

having owners change from original metal to plastic, back to metal  

and then back

to "new improved" plastic. ( I would have stayed with the metal - 

screw the AD)



The current favored plastic is delrin or POM (polyoxymethylene)

which is a resin used as a binder in solid structures with either a  

glass or teflon fiber filler.



The Bing floats look like foam with an epoxy cover.  I would inspect  

them frequently.



No plastic in my old solex

BB

Dennis.Kirby(at)kirtland.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

"JetPilot" wrote: << GrantR, I checked the carburetor floats on my Rotax

912-S as I said I would, and I have the beginning of the same condition

you describe >>



Has anyone asked what Lockwood or Ronnie Smith think about this

condition?



As those guys are Rotax experts, maybe they've seen this before and can

offer an explanation or solution.



Dennis Kirby

Mark-3, 912

New Mexico

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Check your carb floats!!

Mike,

Thats what mine looked like. One was in much worse shape with large bubbles. They do seem to like to bubble around the edges.

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

I checked my 10 year old floats - found nothing wrong.... just so we 

get the other side, it's easy to check.



At 04:46 PM 9/26/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Since I am new to light sport flying I don't know if this is a 

direct result of using gas with ethanol or not.



I pulled my float bowls the other day and examined the floats and 

found one that was literally flaking apart! I took a file and 

scrubbed on it to remove the flaking outside plastic covering then i 

used my finger nail and the next thing I new my nail sunk into the 

foam core of the float. If I had not pulled the bowl it is possible 

that the flakes of the outer covering of the float could have 

stopped up the jets in my carbs. So that float is useless now. 

Luckily I had a spare on hand and have 3 more ordered.



These are bing 54 carbs

_________________
Possum

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Check your carb floats!!

 	  grantr wrote: 	
		  



----SNIP----

I pulled my float bowls the other day and examined the floats and found one that was literally flaking apart! 



	




After Grant's findings, pulled my carb bowls to examine the floats more closely than I do when I pull the bowls checking for stuff that ought not to be in the bowl.



Floats were not flaking and seem to be pretty solid.



However, thought I noticed one was lower in the fuel than the other.  Set the bowl on a level surface and it was almost a 1/4 inch lower in the fuel.  Pulled the other bowl and found exactly the same thing.  The rear most float in both bowls was not sitting as high in the fuel as the forward ones.



Replaced the two that were down with new ones and all are about the same now.



Pictures are attached.



Dual carb, R503, Firestar II



Anyone want to speculate as to the reason just the left ones seem to be affected????

CarbFloats_New 005 (Small).jpg

Description:

With original floats on left side.

Filesize:

36.35 KB

Viewed:

399 Time(s)

CarbFloats_New 006 (Small).jpg

Description:

With new floats on left side.

Filesize:

32.08 KB

Viewed:

378 Time(s)

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: Check your carb floats!!

Hi George,

  

 When the Kolb is parked, the rear of the engine is slightly lower than the  front and the carbs are tilted toward the rear.  Thus the rear floats  are sitting in more fuel than the front ones, albeit a very small  difference.  While the Kolb is sitting in storage, the fuel in the  float bowls evaporates and the rear floats are exposed to the fuel longer than  the front ones.  They get saturated with fuel and then don't float as high  as the front ones which are more dried out.  I have no idea if this is  the case, but it sounds good, don't you think?

  

  Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive



  

  In a message dated 10/10/2008 10:22:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  gtalexander(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Anyone    want to speculate as to the reason just the left ones seem to be affected????     

	




New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out! 

  [quote][b]

George Alexander

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 245
Location: SW Florida

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:27 am Post subject: Re: Check your carb floats!!

 	  WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co wrote: 	
		    

 When the Kolb is parked, the rear of the engine is slightly lower than the  front and the carbs are tilted toward the rear.  Thus the rear floats  are sitting in more fuel than the front ones, albeit a very small  difference.  While the Kolb is sitting in storage, the fuel in the  float bowls evaporates and the rear floats are exposed to the fuel longer than  the front ones.  They get saturated with fuel and then don't float as high  as the front ones which are more dried out.  I have no idea if this is  the case, but it sounds good, don't you think?

  

  Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive



  

  In a message dated 10/10/2008 10:22:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  gtalexander(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Anyone    want to speculate as to the reason just the left ones seem to be affected????     

	




	




Bill:

You win the prize... now I have to figure out what it is....



Your theory as to the reason is one that I had thought and also one offered up by "The Man" at THE Rotax Service Center in Central FL.

_________________
George Alexander
FS II R503
E-LSA N709FS
http://www.oh2fly.net

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