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100LL use in rotax 503?

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grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:01 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

It seems lately ethanol free gas is becoming harder to find. The last 30 gallons I have run through my 503  contained 10% ethanol according to the pump sticker. I might be crazy but I swear I can tell the difference in smell between the regular and ethanol blended gas.



Anyway I know rotax does not recommended ethanol at all over I think 5% and they do allow use of av gas some of the time.



I have heard of some people using exclusively 100LL in 2 strokes with no problems. Then I have heard that the lead will flat spot the bearing and cause deposits in  cylinder and foul the plugs more often.



So far so good with the E fuel but I still don't like it.



Is anyone using exclusively 100LL in a 2 stroke rotax?

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

> I have heard of some people using exclusively 100LL in 2 strokes with no 

problems. Then I have heard that the lead will flat spot the bearing and 

cause deposits in  cylinder and foul the plugs more often.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 So far so good with the E fuel but I still don't like it.



 Is anyone using exclusively 100LL in a 2 stroke rotax?


	




Grant R:



I used a lot of 100LL during my travels with old Firestar and point ign 447. 

This was in the 1980's.  I doubt there would be any difference now as then. 

Hope 100LL doesn't flat spot bearings, because I burn an awful lot of it in 

my 912ULS loaded with bearings.



I always ran my two strokes hard, as I do my 4 strokes.  I cruised at 5,800 

rpm, the recommended cruise power for all the current Rotax two strokes. 

Sometimes, when I got closer to home after a long trip, I'd push it on up to 

6200 rpm and let it rip.



I am a firm believer in running the engines as they were designed, not 

babying them, but keeping them blown out and clean.  4 to 5 thousand rpm 

hardly keeps a two stroke crankcase free from excess oil.



My thoughts only, for what they are worth.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?

John,



I don't have a problem babying my 503 on my Mk III she has to turn about 5700 to 6000 to cruise. 



Did the spark plug last as long with the 100LL. How about combustion deposits and carbon build up?



Thanks



Grant

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:23 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

Grant R:



Probably leaves less carbon deposits, but some lead deposits.



Spark plugs are cheap.  I would not skimp when it came to changing them out. 

Usually, you can pull the plugs, use a small pin knife blade and a piece of 

safety wire to clean the lead out of the plugs.  I end up doing that 

occasionally on the 912ULS on long cross country flights.



john h

mkIII



  I don't have a problem babying my 503 on my Mk III she has to turn about 

5700 to 6000 to cruise.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Did the spark plug last as long with the 100LL. How about combustion 

 deposits and carbon build up?



 Thanks



 Grant

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

grantr

Joined: 12 Sep 2007
Posts: 217

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?

Thanks John,



I only heard that from one person regarding 100LL  flat spotting bearing. I have not seen that posted any where else.



Looks like I am going leaded

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:12 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

Not a reason to choose a fuel, but an interesting aside:  When my friend's 

MKIII crashed this weekend, the DEP was on the scene because all the fuel 

leaked out of the plane into the ground, close to the river and to a 

well.  He was quite concerned if it was leaded aviation fuel (it 

wasn't).  Either way the pilot (or the pilot's insurance) will have to pay 

to have the soil dug up and disposed of.



-Dana

--

  Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

If a bearing(ball or roller or needle) slides rather than 

rolls,,,then there can be irregular wear.. Herb



At 06:56 PM 9/22/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks John,



I only head that from one person regarding 100LL  flat spotting 

bearing. I have not seen that posted any where else.



Looks like I am going leaded [Wink]





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5593#205593

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%: 



 posted by: herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 If a bearing(ball or roller or needle) slides rather than 

 rolls,,,then there can be irregular wear.. Herb


	


Herb makes a good point...the same can be achieved by using too much 

oil...just how much is too much is uncertain...wherein the oil 

creates a hydrodynamic wedge that causes the ball/needle to slide 

instead of roll.



Jim Baker

580.788.2779

Elmore City, OK

Steven Green

Joined: 05 Feb 2006
Posts: 118

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

This is good information on bearings, but doesn't rolling element skidding 

have more to do with minimum loading, bearing alignment, and lubricant 

viscosity than lead additive in the fuel?  Maybe I am missing something, I 

usually do.



Steven



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:



 posted by: herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com>

>

> If a bearing(ball or roller or needle) slides rather than

> rolls,,,then there can be irregular wear.. Herb



 Herb makes a good point...the same can be achieved by using too much

 oil...just how much is too much is uncertain...wherein the oil

 creates a hydrodynamic wedge that causes the ball/needle to slide

 instead of roll.



 Jim Baker

 580.788.2779

 Elmore City, OK

_________________
Steven Green

Possums

Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 247

Posted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

At 08:10 PM 9/22/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Not a reason to choose a fuel, but an interesting aside:  When my 

friend's MKIII crashed this weekend, the DEP was on the scene 

because all the fuel leaked out of the plane into the ground, close 

to the river and to a well.  He was quite concerned if it was leaded 

aviation fuel (it wasn't).  Either way the pilot (or the pilot's 

insurance) will have to pay to have the soil dug up and disposed of.



-Dana


	


Yeah, when I sunk mine in the lake, the Corp of Engineers were more 

concerned about

wether or not I might still have fuel in my tank that could leak, 

than just about

anything else. Like every boat & jet ski sloshing back & forth all 

day long never spilled a drop.

Torpedo_Sullivan.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

53.02 KB

Viewed:

367 Time(s)

_________________
Possum

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:00 am Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

disposed of?  in other words they dig it up and move it to another  

spot..-problem solved?.... no

transplanted maybe.  How many of us have gotten a good mouthful of  

the old leaded stuff

trying to prime a gas transfer?

Me?, brain-damaged?  nahhhhhh

BB



On 22, Sep 2008, at 9:40 PM, possums wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   At 08:10 PM 9/22/2008, you wrote:

> 

>

> Not a reason to choose a fuel, but an interesting aside:  When my  

> friend's MKIII crashed this weekend, the DEP was on the scene  

> because all the fuel leaked out of the plane into the ground,  

> close to the river and to a well.  He was quite concerned if it  

> was leaded aviation fuel (it wasn't).  Either way the pilot (or  

> the pilot's insurance) will have to pay to have the soil dug up  

> and disposed of.

>

> -Dana



 Yeah, when I sunk mine in the lake, the Corp of Engineers were more  

 concerned about

 wether or not I might still have fuel in my tank that could leak,  

 than just about

 anything else. Like every boat & jet ski sloshing back & forth all  

 day long never spilled a drop. <Torpedo Sullivan.jpg>

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:48 am Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

I believe the DEP requires that fuel-contaminated soil be BURNED --  

like, cremated. That's one  reason  why it costs so much.

The air pollution may well be worse than burying it -- but that's the  

Gov't for you.

A residence  nearby had a fuel-oil leak that cost over $100-K.

do not repeat!

do not archive



On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:58 AM, robert bean wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 disposed of?  in other words they dig it up and move it to another  

 spot..-problem solved?.... no

 transplanted maybe.  How many of us have gotten a good mouthful of  

 the old leaded stuff

 trying to prime a gas transfer?

 Me?, brain-damaged?  nahhhhhh

 BB



 _

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

I believe the DEP requires that fuel-contaminated soil be BURNED --

like, cremated.>>



Good grief.  i can see the pointof all this if a tanker had crashed but for 

5 gallons?



Pat

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

At 07:58 AM 9/23/2008, robert bean wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



disposed of?  in other words they dig it up and move it to another

spot..-problem solved?.... no

transplanted maybe.  How many of us have gotten a good mouthful of

the old leaded stuff

trying to prime a gas transfer?


	


I didn't say it made sense...



-Dana



do not archive

--

  I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.

aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:22 am Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

Hey guys, I have a well for my drinking water. Somebodies spills a quantity of any petroleum product and it gets in the aquifer and I'm screwed. So yeah, dig it up and take it elsewhere. And now back to the Kolb show, already in progress. 



Rick

Government of the people, by the people, and for the people. You wanna criticize the government? Look in the mirror.

do not archive



On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 11:20 AM, Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>

  



 At 07:58 AM 9/23/2008, robert bean wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Kolb-List message posted by: robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net (slyck(at)frontiernet.net)>

 

 disposed of?  in other words they dig it up and move it to another

 spot..-problem solved?.... no

 transplanted maybe.  How many of us have gotten a good mouthful of

 the old leaded stuff

 trying to prime a gas transfer?

 	
 



 I didn't say it made sense...

 

 -Dana

 

 do not archive

 --

  I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar.



 

 

 

 

 

 



[b]

ulflyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?

There may be another advantage to using 100LL, I feel the fuel at 

least without oil does not go stale nearly as fast as auto fuel.  So 

if you planes sits a while between flights, it might pay off.  With 

oil ???  I still feel it would stay fresher, longer.  Just my opinion 

based upon experience.

jerb



t 06:56 PM 9/22/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Thanks John,



I only head that from one person regarding 100LL  flat spotting 

bearing. I have not seen that posted any where else.



Looks like I am going leaded [Wink]





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5593#205593

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