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 Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: Kolb-List Digest: 23 Msgs - 09/22/08 |
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Skywaylodge, Forum users unsubscribe themselves.
Rick
On Sun, Sep 28, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Skywaylodge <skywaylodge(at)aol.com (skywaylodge(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | please unsubscribe this address
In a message dated 09/23/08 02:59:31 Eastern Daylight Time, kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com) writes:
| Quote: | *
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Kolb-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Mon 09/22/08: 23
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:29 AM - 447 Tuning (2danglico)
2. 05:50 AM - EGT? (grantr)
3. 06:07 AM - Re: MKIII crash today (grantr)
4. 09:57 AM - Re: Re: MKIII crash today (Dana Hague)
5. 10:02 AM - Re: Re: MKIII crash today (Jack B. Hart)
6. 01:01 PM - 100LL use in rotax 503? (grantr)
7. 01:30 PM - Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump (jb92563)
8. 01:48 PM - Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (John Hauck)
9. 02:00 PM - Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (grantr)
10. 02:00 PM - Re: 2008 Kolb Homecoming (icrashrc)
11. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (John Hauck)
12. 02:29 PM - 2008 Kolb Homecoming (John Hauck)
13. 04:53 PM - Re: EGT? (grantr)
14. 04:56 PM - Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (grantr)
15. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (Dana Hague)
16. 05:12 PM - EGT probe location (Dana Hague)
17. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (herb)
18. 05:53 PM - Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (Jim Baker)
19. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (Steven Green)
20. 06:27 PM - Re: EGT probe location (Jack B. Hart)
21. 06:39 PM - Re: EGT probe location (Dana Hague)
22. 06:41 PM - Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503? (possums)
23. 08:08 PM - Re: EGT probe location (Jim Dunn)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 04:29:46 AM PST US
Subject: 447 Tuning
From: "2danglico" <john.tempest(at)basf.com (john.tempest(at)basf.com)>
Hey Guys,
I appreciate the feedback. I've put a couple hours on her since my last post and
noticed these things. Climb out rpm is 5800-6000, level flight is 6200. Prop
is 66 inches and 30 degrees pitch. CHT is 260 front, 290 rear. EGT's are good,
after dropping my needle, moving around between 900 and 1100 degrees depending
on throttle position. I never revisit WOT after climb out, so I was kinda in
the dark as to my max RPM at level flight. I throttle back to 4750 RPM and this
gives me 'bout 50mph AIS, my comfy cruise speed. I'll give R. Smith a call
and see what his take is. My friends at the airpark say leave well enough alone.
But I think it has to do with my Kolb embarrassing their planes on climb out.
They all are running 503 DC/DI and none are showing CHT below 350. If my Rotax
manual didn't say 330 to 425 degrees, I'd be a happy camper. Even if there's
a little more power to be had at 6500 rpm. I feel my climb outs are safe.
I can hold it at 50 mph and I'm getting up in a hurry. -John
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5466#205466
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 05:50:36 AM PST US
Subject: EGT?
From: "grantr" <grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com (grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com)>
I just installed a new westach Dual egt gauge and one new sender. The plane originally
had 1 EGT gauge. I am using the existing sender since the old gauge is
a westach as well. Both( new and old) senders are working however I noticed after
shutdown that one gauge in the dual egt continued to read the temp at shutdown
and tapered off as the engine cooled and the other one stopped reading
right after shutdown.
Since these are non powered gauges is there something wrong? Also the new sender
is longer than the old one and it's head is shaped a little different.
Grant
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5477#205477
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 06:07:38 AM PST US
Subject: Re: MKIII crash today
From: "grantr" <grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com (grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com)>
I saw a news video and it showed the plane upside down at the base of a tree.
Did they go in at the top of the tree and tumble through?
What engine did they have?
Very sad indeed.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5479#205479
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 09:57:15 AM PST US
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: MKIII crash today
At 09:07 AM 9/22/2008, grantr wrote:
>
| Quote: | I saw a news video and it showed the plane upside down at the base of a
tree. Did they go in at the top of the tree and tumble through?
What engine did they have?
Very sad indeed.
|
It looked they went in on a 45 degree angle from the treetop, then nosed
over. Whether they initially hit the treetop at that angle or came in at a
normal glide angle and then dropped after hitting the tree I can't say.
Engine was [I think] a 912, or perhaps a 914. Reason for the failure
unknown, possibly a fuel system problem.
-Dana
--
Friends help you move. *Real* friends help you move bodies.
________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________
Time: 10:02:31 AM PST US
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: MKIII crash today
At 06:07 AM 9/22/08 -0700, you wrote:
| Quote: |
I saw a news video and it showed the plane upside down at the base of a
tree. Did they go in at the top of the tree and tumble through?
|
| Quote: |
What engine did they have?
>
|
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NNumSQL.asp?NNumbertxt=350RB&cmndfind.x=0&cmndfind.y=0
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________
Time: 01:01:51 PM PST US
Subject: 100LL use in rotax 503?
From: "grantr" <grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com (grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com)>
It seems lately ethanol free gas is becoming harder to find. The last 30 gallons
I have run through my 503 contained 10% ethanol according to the pump sticker.
I might be crazy but I swear I can tell the difference in smell between the
regular and ethanol blended gas.
Anyway I know rotax does not recommended ethanol at all over I think 5% and they
do allow use of av gas some of the time.
I have heard of some people using exclusively 100LL in 2 strokes with no problems.
Then I have heard that the lead will flat spot the bearing and cause deposits
in cylinder and foul the plugs more often.
So far so good with the E fuel but I still don't like it.
Is anyone using exclusively 100LL in a 2 stroke rotax?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5554#205554
________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________
Time: 01:30:15 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Use of Facet fuel pumps as backup to pulse pump
From: "jb92563" <jb92563(at)yahoo.com (jb92563(at)yahoo.com)>
Hmmmm....good point.
I however have a certified aircraft that specifies the pump be on for takeoff since
that is the most likely time a fuel supply failure will cause dire results....logic
being that no failure = no fire etc.
On another point I also have a brand new Facet pump and found it failed to pump
properly after 15 mins of proper use.
--------
Ray
Kolb UltraStar (Cuyuna UL-202)
Moni MotorGlider
Schreder HP-11 Glider
Grob 109 Motorglider
Riverside County, CA
Do Not Archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5558#205558
________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________
Time: 01:48:47 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
Subject: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
| Quote: | I have heard of some people using exclusively 100LL in 2 strokes with no
problems. Then I have heard that the lead will flat spot the bearing and
|
cause deposits in cylinder and foul the plugs more often.
| Quote: |
So far so good with the E fuel but I still don't like it.
Is anyone using exclusively 100LL in a 2 stroke rotax?
|
Grant R:
I used a lot of 100LL during my travels with old Firestar and point ign 447.
This was in the 1980's. I doubt there would be any difference now as then.
Hope 100LL doesn't flat spot bearings, because I burn an awful lot of it in
my 912ULS loaded with bearings.
I always ran my two strokes hard, as I do my 4 strokes. I cruised at 5,800
rpm, the recommended cruise power for all the current Rotax two strokes.
Sometimes, when I got closer to home after a long trip, I'd push it on up to
6200 rpm and let it rip.
I am a firm believer in running the engines as they were designed, not
babying them, but keeping them blown out and clean. 4 to 5 thousand rpm
hardly keeps a two stroke crankcase free from excess oil.
My thoughts only, for what they are worth.
john h
mkIII
________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________
Time: 02:00:40 PM PST US
Subject: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
From: "grantr" <grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com (grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com)>
John,
I don't have a problem babying my 503 on my Mk III she has to turn about 5700 to
6000 to cruise.
Did the spark plug last as long with the 100LL. How about combustion deposits and
carbon build up?
Thanks
Grant
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5566#205566
________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________
Time: 02:00:58 PM PST US
Subject: Re: 2008 Kolb Homecoming
From: "icrashrc" <icrashrc(at)AOL.COM (icrashrc(at)AOL.COM)>
Here's a few pics as well as a short video from the Homecoming. A big thank you
to all of our friends at Kolb for an outstanding weekend!
http://www.ill-eagleaviation.com/kolb_2008.htm
--------
Scott
www.ill-EagleAviation.com
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5567#205567
________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________
Time: 02:23:41 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
Grant R:
Probably leaves less carbon deposits, but some lead deposits.
Spark plugs are cheap. I would not skimp when it came to changing them out.
Usually, you can pull the plugs, use a small pin knife blade and a piece of
safety wire to clean the lead out of the plugs. I end up doing that
occasionally on the 912ULS on long cross country flights.
john h
mkIII
I don't have a problem babying my 503 on my Mk III she has to turn about
5700 to 6000 to cruise.
| Quote: |
Did the spark plug last as long with the 100LL. How about combustion
deposits and carbon build up?
>
|
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________
Time: 02:29:02 PM PST US
From: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>
Subject: 2008 Kolb Homecoming
Hi Gang:
The 2008 Kolb Homecoming has come and gone. My, the years are flying by.
Was great to see all my old friends again. Where else can you come together
once a year, spend a weekend with folks you met at the Homecoming in
previous years, have the same love of the same aircraft, eat enough for two
people, go to bed early and get up when you want to, and not spend a dime,
except for the money to get there and get back home.
Bruce Chaison, James Tripp and I had a good flight to Labhart Field. Even
though we had a headwind most of the way, we still had fun and got there in
time for the BBQ put on by Bryan Millborn (sp). The "cake lady" had two
scrumdiddlyumpscious cakes, just like last year.
All the food was great, three meals a day.
Entertainment was put on by my main man Travis Brown and his five string
banjo. He was accompanied by Eddy and her feller, and Howard Brandon. We
were also privileged to hear a little 9 year old girl sing a couple songs
for us.
The photos are:
a. Three intrepid flyers waiting for weather at Gantt International
Airport.
b. James Tripp heading for the Kolb Homecoming.
c. Approaching Wind Rock Mountain near Oak Ridge, TN.
d. Wind Generators at Wind Rock. For a size comparison, check the yellow
road grader left of the white building in the foreground.
john h
mkIII
________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________
Time: 04:53:26 PM PST US
Subject: Re: EGT?
From: "grantr" <grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com (grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com)>
Maybe I didn't word that the best. The issue is I bought a new dual EGT gauge and
one new sender. I am using the old sender on the pto side and the new one on
the mag side. The new sender mag side reading continues to read say around
800 degrees and tapers off gradually over a few mins after engine shutdown. the
other sender pto side basically tapers off quickly after engine shutdown.
What is the gauge suppose to do normally? Slowly taper off or rather rapidly?
The only think I could thing off that would cause this is the sender touching the
exhaust pipe wall, however I am 95% sure thats not the case.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5592#205592
________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________
Time: 04:56:14 PM PST US
Subject: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
From: "grantr" <grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com (grant_richardson25(at)yahoo.com)>
Thanks John,
I only head that from one person regarding 100LL flat spotting bearing. I have
not seen that posted any where else.
Looks like I am going leaded [Wink]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5593#205593
________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________
Time: 05:12:30 PM PST US
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
Not a reason to choose a fuel, but an interesting aside: When my friend's
MKIII crashed this weekend, the DEP was on the scene because all the fuel
leaked out of the plane into the ground, close to the river and to a
well. He was quite concerned if it was leaded aviation fuel (it
wasn't). Either way the pilot (or the pilot's insurance) will have to pay
to have the soil dug up and disposed of.
-Dana
--
Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________
Time: 05:12:30 PM PST US
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>
Subject: EGT probe location
According to the Cuyuna manual, the EGT probe should be 1.5" from the
exhaust gasket for the #1 cylinder. However, mine is located (by a
previous owner) at the intersection of the two pipes, about 6" from the
gasket(s). What I'd like to know is how much does that affect the
indicated temperatures?
I've jetted to keep the full throttle EGT at or below 1200F (Cuyuna
specifies 1200 as "best HP" and 1275 as max), and the plug color seems to
confirm I've got it right. When I slightly close the throttle so the
needle drops into the jet it rises slightly as I'm told it should, and it
runs quite a bit cooler at cruise. CHT is fine too, around 300. Haven't
had any engine problems except for the sudden stoppage a few months ago
which I now attribute to a bad carb float needle. It's a basic sensor, in
the EGT/tach 2" combo gauge. Relocating it is no big deal, but I'd rather
not do it until I have the exhaust off for some other reason anyway.
-Dana
--
Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________
Time: 05:13:04 PM PST US
From: herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com (herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
If a bearing(ball or roller or needle) slides rather than
rolls,,,then there can be irregular wear.. Herb
At 06:56 PM 9/22/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks John,
I only head that from one person regarding 100LL flat spotting
bearing. I have not seen that posted any where else.
>Looks like I am going leaded [Wink]
|
________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________
Time: 05:53:03 PM PST US
From: "Jim Baker" <jlbaker(at)msbit.net (jlbaker(at)msbit.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (4.41)
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
posted by: herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com (herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
>
| Quote: | If a bearing(ball or roller or needle) slides rather than
rolls,,,then there can be irregular wear.. Herb
|
Herb makes a good point...the same can be achieved by using too much
oil...just how much is too much is uncertain...wherein the oil
creates a hydrodynamic wedge that causes the ball/needle to slide
instead of roll.
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________
Time: 06:10:34 PM PST US
From: "Steven Green" <Kolbdriver(at)bellsouth.net (Kolbdriver(at)bellsouth.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
This is good information on bearings, but doesn't rolling element skidding
have more to do with minimum loading, bearing alignment, and lubricant
viscosity than lead additive in the fuel? Maybe I am missing something, I
usually do.
Steven
| Quote: |
X-SpamReason %%SpamReason%%:
posted by: herb <herbgh(at)nctc.com (herbgh(at)nctc.com)>
>
> If a bearing(ball or roller or needle) slides rather than
>> rolls,,,then there can be irregular wear.. Herb
|
| Quote: |
Herb makes a good point...the same can be achieved by using too much
oil...just how much is too much is uncertain...wherein the oil
creates a hydrodynamic wedge that causes the ball/needle to slide
> instead of roll.
|
| Quote: |
Jim Baker
580.788.2779
Elmore City, OK
|
________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________
Time: 06:27:38 PM PST US
From: "Jack B. Hart" <jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net (jbhart(at)onlyinternet.net)>
Subject: Re: EGT probe location
At 08:07 PM 9/22/08 -0400, you wrote:
>
| Quote: | According to the Cuyuna manual, the EGT probe should be 1.5" from the
exhaust gasket for the #1 cylinder. However, mine is located (by a
previous owner) at the intersection of the two pipes, about 6" from the
>gasket(s). What I'd like to know is how much does that affect the
|
| Quote: | indicated temperatures?
|
Dana,
I located a second EGT probe about six inches further along the pipe on the
Victor 1+. This EGT always reads higher that the one that is installed
closer to the engine. If the engine is running rich, the new EGT will read
as much as 125 degrees higher.
Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN
________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________
Time: 06:39:49 PM PST US
From: Dana Hague <d-m-hague(at)comcast.net (d-m-hague(at)comcast.net)>
Subject: Re: EGT probe location
At 10:26 PM 9/22/2008, Jack B. Hart wrote:
| Quote: | I located a second EGT probe about six inches further along the pipe on the
Victor 1+. This EGT always reads higher that the one that is installed
closer to the engine. If the engine is running rich, the new EGT will read
>as much as 125 degrees higher.
|
Makes sense, if fuel is still burning in the exhaust. How much higher does
it read if it's _not_ running rich?
-Dana
--
In America, anyone can become president. That's one of the risks you take.
________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________
Time: 06:41:49 PM PST US
From: possums <possums(at)bellsouth.net (possums(at)bellsouth.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: 100LL use in rotax 503?
At 08:10 PM 9/22/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: |
Not a reason to choose a fuel, but an interesting aside: When my
friend's MKIII crashed this weekend, the DEP was on the scene
>because all the fuel leaked out of the plane into the ground, close
|
| Quote: | to the river and to a well. He was quite concerned if it was leaded
aviation fuel (it wasn't). Either way the pilot (or the pilot's
>insurance) will have to pay to have the soil dug up and disposed of.
|
Yeah, when I sunk mine in the lake, the Corp of Engineers were more
concerned about
wether or not I might still have fuel in my tank that could leak,
than just about
anything else. Like every boat & jet ski sloshing back & forth all
day long never spilled a drop.
________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________
Time: 08:08:27 PM PST US
Subject: Re: EGT probe location
From: "Jim Dunn" <jim(at)tru-cast.com (jim(at)tru-cast.com)>
I had a Cuyuna 430R on a Quicksilver MX until 2 years ago. It had the EGT
probe at the "Y" also. I relocated it to 2" from the piston, which may be
1.5" from the exhaust gasket. The temps came down quit a bit. I can't
remember how much, but probably 150-200 deg F. The EGT also became much
more responsive with power changes, choke, etc. If you haven't already,
you definitely need to relocate it. Where it is is better than no EGT,
but not by much.
Jim D.
N. Idaho
At 08:07 PM 9/22/08 -0400, you wrote:
>
| Quote: | According to the Cuyuna manual, the EGT probe should be 1.5" from the
exhaust gasket for the #1 cylinder. However, mine is located (by a
previous owner) at the intersection of the two pipes, about 6" from the
>gasket(s). What I'd like to know is how much does that affect the
|
| Quote: | indicated temperatures?
|
|
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