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Fuel drain

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gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Fuel drain

What is best for 100LL - I have the same problem and are continually replacing O'rings and valves. 

 

Regards 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jabiru 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:51 pm Post subject: Fuel drain

What I feel is best for 100LL is no drain valves, therefore no O  

rings at that particular location, then teflon ball valves in the  

down lines into Purolator glass in-line filters (the o-rings  

contained therein have not leaked, swollen, or otherwise caused  

problems in two years)  down into the header tank and then forward  

into another glass in-line filter to protect the electric Facet fuel  

pump. The header tank becomes the lowest point in the system,  

therefore my "gascolator."  I wasn't using the fuel pump before, but  

now that I've converted to gravity only, I use the boost pump for  

take-off and climbout. Yesterday I switched off the pump at 1000'  

AGL, and it continued to climb for another several seconds...didn't  

record how long...until it started to stumble for lack of fuel. I  

pushed the nose down, and even before the plane got to level, the  

engine caught and ran on gravity feed alone. I then switched on the  

pump just for security. I have shut off the pump and flown for 20  

minutes in normal S & L attitude with the occasional slight climb,  

just to mimic a normal day of flying, and haven't experienced any  

lack of fuel to the engine, other than the steep climb I mentioned  

earlier.



With the pump on, and the plane pitched up and climbing at 1600  

fpm....briefly...then at about 13-1400 fpm, the engine did not suffer  

from fuel starvation.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are NOT go, and I'm  

back to flying/testing/"guinea pigging"...damn it!





On Oct 6, 2008, at 8:39 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 What is best for 100LL - I have the same problem and are  

 continually replacing O'rings and valves.



 Regards



 Gary



 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jabiru 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the  

 addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of  

 this message by persons or entities other than the intended  

 recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,  

 kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Fuel drain

Lynn 

 

refresh my memory - why did you remove the mechanical fuel pump from your engine 

 

regards 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jabiru 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:54 am Post subject: Fuel drain

Just to take the...albeit VERY small...load off the camshaft, and  

simplify the plumbing. After the crank gear broke, I got to thinking  

that if I didn't have a fuel pump being "driven" by the cam, there  

would be that much less load on the crank/cam timing gears.I can hear  

people saying right now, "huh? there isn't that much effort required  

to push that rod in and out of the engine." And they're right. I was  

thinking all along of converting to gravity feed, and this was the  

perfect time to do it. Partly I was frustrated with having to do the  

rebuild, and saw this as another way to change my engine from what  

Jabiru invented. So call it a "cut off nose to spite face" thing, but  

more correctly, it was obvious that the engine would run on gravity  

alone, given the location of the carb in proximity to the high tanks  

in a Kitfox. Yes, I need the electric pump under certain conditions,  

but these are a low percentage of all the time the engine can run  

without it. I have yet to change from the float needle and seat  

designed for a pump to one designed for gravity, but I'll call Bing  

and get those parts ordered. In the meantime, pump management is  

pretty simple....on for takeoff and steep climb, off for level flight.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are NOT go, and I'm  

back to flying/testing/"guinea pigging"...damn it!

do not archive



On Oct 6, 2008, at 10:31 PM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Lynn



 refresh my memory - why did you remove the mechanical fuel pump  

 from your engine



 regards



 Gary



 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jabiru 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the  

 addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of  

 this message by persons or entities other than the intended  

 recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,  

 kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the  

 message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for  

 any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may  

 arise as a result of the e-mail transmission. _- 

 www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List _- 

 www.matronics.com/contribution _- 

 ============================================================

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: Fuel drain

The viton material seems best for all applications where I have used them, including AVGAS.   I put some viton”O” rings in a Cessna 172 that belongs to a friend of mine about 5 years ago and they are still working fine.  He uses both 100LL and auto gas, not in any particulsr ratio, and he buys his auto fuel at the cheapest place in town.  

   

John Hart   

     

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gary.algate(at)sandvik.com

 Sent: Monday, October 06, 2008 7:40 PM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Fuel drain  

  

   



 What is best for 100LL - I have the same problem and are continually replacing O'rings and valves. 

 

 Regards 

 

 Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jabiru 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.    	  Quote: 	
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       [quote][b]

Rex Hefferan

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 147
Location: Olney Springs, Colorado USA "NOT a Kitpig"

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:02 am Post subject: Fuel drain

Don't forget to consider pump on for landing, in case of a go-around.

Rex



Lynn Matteson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   


	


<snip>



 	  Quote: 	
		     In the meantime, pump management is  pretty simple....on for takeoff 

 and steep climb, off for level flight.



 Lynn Matteson

 Kitfox IV Speedster

 Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are NOT go, and I'm  

 back to flying/testing/"guinea pigging"...damn it!

 do not archive



-- 
	


Rex Hefferan

SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs

_________________
Rex
N740GP - M2/582
Colorado

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: Fuel drain

Lynn: 



I assume your header is before or upstream of your pump.   Do you have a

drain on the bottom of the header?  With a nice big gascolator like that why

bother with filters at all?

Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Fuel drain

Yup, I forgot to mention that I do that as well. Thanks for the  

reminder, Rex.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are NOT go, and I'm  

back to flying/testing/"guinea pigging"...damn it!





On Oct 7, 2008, at 10:01 AM, Rexinator wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Don't forget to consider pump on for landing, in case of a go-around.

 Rex



 Lynn Matteson wrote:



> 



 <snip>



>   In the meantime, pump management is  pretty simple....on for  

> takeoff and steep climb, off for level flight.

>

> Lynn Matteson

> Kitfox IV Speedster

> Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are NOT go, and  

> I'm  back to flying/testing/"guinea pigging"...damn it!

> do not archive

>

 -- 

 Rex Hefferan

 SE Colorado / K-II / 582-C / still waiting repairs

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: Fuel drain

I use the filters mainly just to see what kind of crud, if any, I've  

taken on in the fuel. I'd be nice (well, maybe not really) to see  

that after stopping at Airport "X" that I got crud in the filters.  

They are visible right over my shoulders. And with the valves just  

before them in the line, they can be changed/cleaned very quickly.



Yes, the header is down low behind the right seat, with the drain  

just above the fabric. I glued a PVC plumbing flange onto the fabric  

from the inside, and the drain sticks down into that. It kinda  

stiffens the fabric at that point so the hole in the fabric doesn't  

vibrate with the wind.



The filter after the header, but before the fuel pump is a "just in  

case filter" to keep any crud out of it.



p.s. I just sent off one-half of my ignition system off for  

analysis...semi-grounded for now...unless I feel brave.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, and counting...all systems are NOT go, and I'm  

back to flying/testing/"guinea pigging"...damn it!





On Oct 7, 2008, at 11:37 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



[quote] 



 Lynn:



 I assume your header is before or upstream of your pump.   Do you  

 have a

 drain on the bottom of the header?  With a nice big gascolator like  

 that why

 bother with filters at all?

 Noel



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:53 am Post subject: Fuel drain

This is not a place for feeling "Brave"   



I only use screens in my gascolator but with the set up you have, the super

gascolator, probably better than mine, I wouldn't bother with the filter

before the pump.  The idea of using the PVC flange is a good one and if I

have to drop something out the bottom of my plane I'll use that idea.  I was

playing with the idea of a long wire on a bird for the ham 80 M band.  Just

what the Kitfox needs ... more drag!



My 912 has the old type problem prone ignition system.  Apparently it can be

rebuilt to new specs.  I'm still waiting for some plumbing supplies to get

the installation finished.  I'm still hoping to get some time in this fall

before the ice forms on the ponds. 



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: Fuel drain

Lynn do you use lists???  I have a pre flight list, A pre start list, a pre

take off list, a pre landing list and a shutdown list. And of course a

loading list for putting the plane on the trailer...  it's on floats and I

have o trailer it to the pond every time I fly.  The pre take off and pre

landing lists are on my knee pad.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: Fuel drain

Pre-flight check list? Absolutely! All of mine are on one sheet of  

paper. I just re-wrote it to include the "fuel pump ON" notation at  

'engine start' and 'before takeoff' sections. And of course, I've had  

to up the allowable CHT temps after the recent probe location change,  

which resulted in reported temps higher than what Jabiru reported  

(because they didn't do it right, I like to think  : ) ). One of  

these days I'll have it encased in plastic, but I never seem to be  

absolutely sure that I'm done writing it. I'll pencil in stuff of  

importance as I think of it/them, then print up a new one, then start  

to pencil in new stuff on that one. Just like building the plane,  

building the checklist is an ongoing process for me. I used one  

checklist until it finally became two pieces....worn in half due to  

the constant handling and folding.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition  

system is in for a "medical checkup"



On Oct 7, 2008, at 3:40 PM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Lynn do you use lists???  I have a pre flight list, A pre start  

 list, a pre

 take off list, a pre landing list and a shutdown list. And of course a

 loading list for putting the plane on the trailer...  it's on  

 floats and I

 have o trailer it to the pond every time I fly.  The pre take off  

 and pre

 landing lists are on my knee pad.



 Noel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Fuel drain

Lynn:  

   

I print my lists on the confuser.  Generally I will use a spreadsheet program.  Then I laminate them with clear binding tape...  the 1.5-2 in stuff.  I apply the tape on both sides of each sheet to make it water proof.  A good idea for float planes.  The binding tape can be marked on with normal water based markers and wiped clear with a damp cloth.  I figure the average small roll of tape available at the local drug store will do about a million sheets of paper... Ok that's a slight exaggeration.  I did the same thing with my W&B sheet.  We're supposed to carry one with us.  I did out a W&B sheet for my plane with the regular data printed in.  The blanks that I have to fill in I have some 3M magic tape over the binding tape.  I can write on the "Magic" tape with a pencil and erase it several times before peeling off the "magic" tape and applying fresh.  I do the same thing on my dead reckoning computer.  The screen that you are supposed to draw you vector line on I put a small piece of tape with a tab for easy removal.  Then I draw my line on the tape.  That allows me to use a ball point if nothing else is around.  

   

One other thing I try to print the sheets a size that will easily clip to my knee board.  

   

Like yourself my check sheets last until the next time I find something I think should be on it.   

   

   

[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C92947.00D2C680[/img]  

   

Noel Loveys  

Campbellton, NL, Canada  

CDN AME intern, PP-Rec  

C-FINB, Kitfox III-A  

Aerocet 1100 floats  

[url=noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca]noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca[/url]  

   

   

   

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:03 am Post subject: Fuel drain

I use the "confuser" printer too, printing on a half-sheet of 8.5 x  

11. I hadn't thought of using wide tape for the lamination  

process...thanks for the tip...saves me a trip to the lamination store.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition  

system is in for a "medical checkup"



On Oct 8, 2008, at 11:38 AM, Noel Loveys wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lynn:



 I print my lists on the confuser.  Generally I will use a  

 spreadsheet program.  Then I laminate them with clear binding  

 tape...  the 1.5-2 in stuff.



 Noel Loveys



 Campbellton, NL, Canada



 CDN AME intern, PP-Rec



 C-FINB, Kitfox III-A



 Aerocet 1100 floats



 noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

gary.algate(at)sandvik.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: Fuel drain

Thanks John - I'll give the viton a try 

 

Gary

 

 Gary Algate

 Classic 4 Jabiru 2200

 Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655

 

 

 This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from  [quote][b]

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