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paul(at)eucleides.com
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 Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: Kreem chunks problem |
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On Tue, October 7, 2008 3:10 pm, Lowell Fitt wrote:
| Quote: |
Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has separated in
> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple thousand
Kitfoxs.
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Lowell - seems like 10 years back or so on this list, I seem to recall more than a
couple of times where people wanted to slosh the Fiberglas tanks because fuel was
causing separation and leaking. Some just could not get the Kreem to stick well and
you probably remember all the discussions about repeated sloshing with MEK to remove
the Kreem. Some people thought the particular formulation of the Kreem was old and the
newer formulations were fine. Some thought it was Ethanol or other oxygenated
additives were causing the problem. In some cases it was thought that the Kreem
wouldn't be successful if the tanks had been used with the offending gasoline long
enough for the fuel to be absorbed somewhat in the Fiberglas. I was left with the
impression that people that were successful sloshing did so on new and unused tanks
with the most recent Kreem formulation. I could be wrong but it seemed to me like
Kreem problems happened more than "two or three" times. Being the expert craftsman
that you are, using Kreem was undoubtedly successful for you.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: Kreem chunks problem |
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I sloshed my 11-year-old, previously unused tanks in 2005, and to
date have had no problem with using 100LL, with no more than 9
gallons...ever...of auto fuel being used. My exact entry into the
builder's log reads: " 1-11-05 to 1-18-05...Rinsed fuel tanks with
acetone. Sloshed tanks with Kreem. This was with the tanks already in
the wings...WHAT A BITCH!"
(Trying to completely rotate a 12-foot wing inside an 11-foot-10"
ceiling will make you cuss.)
So I think Paul is correct about the application of the Kreem....new
or very carefully cleaned tanks probably are the most successful. I
recall using 3 gallons of acetone...they are still in my shop marked
#1, #2, and #3, and I use the stuff occasionally for cleanup. I had
thought about draining the settled out stuff from the bottom of the
containers, but haven't got around to it yet....just for grins. I had
rinsed with the first gallon, saved it, used the second gallon, saved
it, and then the third gallon came out pretty clean, so I figured I
was finally done rinsing. Maybe if your tanks have already been used,
a 4th or even 5th gallon of rinse is in order. And I left the stuff
in there for hours at a time...then rotate...then more hours, etc.
Maybe that's why it took me a week to get the job done.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster
Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs, temporarily grounded as one-half of ignition
system is in for a "medical checkup"
On Oct 8, 2008, at 7:53 AM, Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote:
| Quote: |
<paul(at)eucleides.com>
On Tue, October 7, 2008 3:10 pm, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
> <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
>
> Noel says,"The reason I mentioned my tanks are not
>> sloshed is because it has happened that sloshing compound has
>> separated in
>> the tank and blocked finger strainers.
>
> Yes this happened - maybe two or three times out of a couple thousand
> Kitfoxs.
Lowell - seems like 10 years back or so on this list, I seem to
recall more than a
couple of times where people wanted to slosh the Fiberglas tanks
because fuel was
causing separation and leaking. Some just could not get the Kreem
to stick well and
you probably remember all the discussions about repeated sloshing
with MEK to remove
the Kreem. Some people thought the particular formulation of the
Kreem was old and the
newer formulations were fine. Some thought it was Ethanol or other
oxygenated
additives were causing the problem. In some cases it was thought
that the Kreem
wouldn't be successful if the tanks had been used with the
offending gasoline long
enough for the fuel to be absorbed somewhat in the Fiberglas. I was
left with the
impression that people that were successful sloshing did so on new
and unused tanks
with the most recent Kreem formulation. I could be wrong but it
seemed to me like
Kreem problems happened more than "two or three" times. Being the
expert craftsman
that you are, using Kreem was undoubtedly successful for you.
--
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
PAF Consulting Engineers
Office 425.440.9505
Cell 425.241.1618
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Kreem chunks problem |
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Hi Paul,
Noel mentioned that the reason he hasn't Kreemed the wing tanks was because
of the issue of Kreem coming loose and blocking the finger strainers. I can
recall only one instance that I am aware of when that happened. Granted
there are tons of Kitfoxes out there without list affiliation, but I doubt
there were many instances of Kreem problems, because back then, the factory
was very keen on posting Service Bulletins if it determined there were
issues. There is one Service Bulletin regarding an unnamed sloshing
compound coming loose in an aluminum header tank. In the search list it is
erroneosly dated 1999 covering the general time span of the LV Howell
instance, but the date on the Denney bulletin is 1991. The LV Howell
instance was on one of the early Alaska adventures.
http://www.sportflight.com/alaska/KingEpilogMain.htm Check day eleven.
There may have been others where flaking occurred, but I am not aware of
other total blockages from loose Kreem or other instances where large pieces
came out - 8X8". I mentioned two or three to be a tad liberal. As Lynn
suggested, it may have been due to poorly prepared internal surfaces.
The reason for my post is pretty much as you mention. It caused a real
firestorm, so to speak. Many seemed to become Kreem phobic and took great
lengths to either reslosh or remove it. Others just added it to their
prefight and went on flying. I have been on flights of ten with friends to
the Idaho back country. None of these guys are on the list, and none with
Kreem issues and none concerned with Kreem. And most of them with Kitfoxes
from the Kreem issue era. I just wonder how many of the resloshers actually
had issues with the Kreem.
Lowell
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:24 am Post subject: Kreem chunks problem |
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I just returned home from AK. I was one of those resloshers who decided to
take on the project because the evidence of spiderwebbing in the tank and
the tanks weren't yet installed in the wings which made it easier. No
issues at all since then. I can't say for sure that I would have had a
problem had I not resloshed and I'll never know. However, it gave me the
peace of mind I needed.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
---
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