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582 starter not engaging.

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815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: 582 starter not engaging.

Hi all,

      I went start up the plane tonight, my instructor was going to take it up for a flight, and could not get it to start.  The volts show good, but is sounds like the starter is not engaging fully.  I turn the key, and the starter clunks, moves the prop about an inch, then disengages and spins.



Can anyone lead me in the right direction as to what to look for?  Could it be something as simple as lubrication?  How and with what should I lubricate it with?  Any other ideas?



I am still new to the Rotax/Kitfox world, so any information anyone could give, would be appreciated.



Andrew

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:42 pm Post subject: 582 starter not engaging.

Lubrication is doubtful.  With the cowling off, get under the airplane and 

with a flashlight and see if you can see any part of the flywheel.  Have a 

good look at it while someone turns the prop slowly.   You may be able to 

see what is happening from that angle.  Sounds like something is jamming.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



---

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: 582 starter not engaging.

815TL wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Hi all,

       I went start up the plane tonight, my instructor was going to take it up for a flight, and could not get it to start.  The volts show good, but is sounds like the starter is not engaging fully.  I turn the key, and the starter clunks, moves the prop about an inch, then disengages and spins.



 Can anyone lead me in the right direction as to what to look for?  Could it be something as simple as lubrication?  How and with what should I lubricate it with?  Any other ideas?



 I am still new to the Rotax/Kitfox world, so any information anyone could give, would be appreciated.



 Andrew





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8232#208232



   

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 Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 



   

I am going through the same thing right now..mine does not do any 
	


thing..only clicks...BAD starter..engine will have to be pulled to 

replace.can turn starter by hand and then engine will start .then have 

to turn starter again..and so on..Bad starter.wish you luck...I am going 

out and pull my  Dam_  engine....Steve Shinabery N554KF   KF2  St.Marys Ohio

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: Re: 582 starter not engaging.

Thanks guys.  I will get a chance tomorrow to check it out.  It clicks then spins, so I think it is OK, something is just not meshing.  I guess I will need to check it out.



Andrew

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: 582 starter not engaging.

At 05:41 PM 10/10/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  With the cowling off, get under the airplane and with a flashlight 

and see if you can see any part of the flywheel.  Have a good look 

at it while someone turns the prop slowly.   You may be able to see 

what is happening from that angle.


	


Andrew,

         Deke's got good advice as there is an SL or SB on the 582 

flywheel, which can fail. You should be able to check it without 

pulling the engine. You can also see the starter in action from the 

front if you pull the cowl. Watch it while someone hits the starter. 

(Don't get your head cut off, though!)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

malpass

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 5:47 am Post subject: 582 starter not engaging.

Just so happens that I am repairing my starter as we speak as I had the same 

identical symptoms.  I had some very helpful Kitfoxer's explain to me what 

is probably happening, and they turned out to be right on the money.  This 

applies only to the rear mounted starter on the 582.



Take a look at the pilots side stud holding the starter on.  This is the one 

that always breaks into.  The starter will "rock" slightly to the righ and 

left seeming loose.  Its enough to not allow the starter to engage all the 

way.



If this is you issue,  dont try to get at the starter from the cabin side, 

it is futile..............Got to take the engine out to repair. (good time 

to go ahead and do a decarb job on the pistons).



Good luck, and you better hope this is all it is, because this is better 

than a problem with flywheel, bad starter , etc.



Bill



---

_________________
kitfox III w/ 582 greyhead

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Re: 582 starter not engaging.

Man, I really hope I don't have to pull the motor on it right now.  I wanted to get some flying time in.  Is there any way to reach that bolt, without pulling it?



Andrew

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: 582 starter not engaging.

Andrew, don't let pulling the engine slow you down.  It's only about a 20 

minute job with an overhead hoist or if you have big muskles, you can just 

lift it out of there.  Once you get it out it should be evident what the 

problem is.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 397+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



---

malpass

Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Marietta, Georgia

Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: 582 starter not engaging.

There are some 10 rubber washers per side and the stud to replace , so I 

dont think a surgeon could even pull  something off like a repair such as 

this.  Your going to have to get the engine out.  Just visually check and 

you can make sure the broken stud is the problem first.

Make sure this is the problem...........................



Bill

---

_________________
kitfox III w/ 582 greyhead

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: Re: 582 starter not engaging.

Good morning all.

Well, I have some good news after looking the situation over.  I tried another battery, but it still would not engage.  So we tore the cowling off to see what it was doing.  I had someone crank it over, while I looked at it from underneath.  The mounting bolts were fine, so I new that was not the problem.  I looked to me, and forgive me if I use the wrong terms here, like the gear would spin forward and latch on to the flywheel, but the pack (pressure plate?) would not slide forward.  



There was a lot of old thick lubrication on it.  I cleaned it a little, then sprayed it good with some thin lubricant.  



Out of 20 tries after that, it failed to engage just 2 times.  So it now seems to engage 9 out of 10 times.  That is a lot better than 0 out of 10 times.    I will keep an eye on it, but I think that was the whole issue.



Thank you all for all your help and information.



Andrew

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