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Free Wheeling Prop

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Dale Orth

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Las Vegas,Nv

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: Free Wheeling Prop

I hand propped my 912 today and it turned over like their was no compression. I tried to start the Engine and it turned over like all the plugs were missing. Five minutes later I had compression and it ran fine. What's the deal??? Does it have something to do with the slipper clutch???

Could this happen when I'm flying??? I sure could use some help here.

Thanks

Dale

_________________
Dale
KitFox 7
Las Vegas, Nv
daleorth@embarqmail.com

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: Free Wheeling Prop

I'm not sure Dale but how long was it stool prior to you propping it ?

I'm thinking if it is a late model perhaps the hydraulics to the valves

had lost pressure.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG 914 Rotax.



--

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 4:07 am Post subject: Free Wheeling Prop

Dale,

   This problem has been mentioned a few times on the Kitfox list. I remember Lowell Fitt telling me about this problem on a cross country trip. He stopped at an airport (maybe an overnight) and then on start the engine swung freely with no compression as yours did. His solution was to run Marvel Mystery oil thru the engine and it freed the valves and the problem was gone. I don't know if the problem was in the valve hydraulics or sticking valves due to avgas.  I do know you are not the only one to have this problem as it has been listed on several occasions.

                                                    

                                                         Dick Maddux

                                                         Kitfox 4-1200

                                                         Rotax 912UL

                                                         Pensacola,Fl 



A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.  See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

ami(at)MCFADYEAN.FREESERV
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 5:44 am Post subject: Free Wheeling Prop

I've only seen this once before, on an engine that had been overheated 

(because of loss of cooling water; the heads had gone loose too, which is a 

classic symptom of the overheating). It seemed to run OK otherwise, but blew 

out all its oil a few hours later.



Duncan McF.

---

lgold(at)quantum-associat
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Free Wheeling Prop

Hi Guys,

Are you starting the engine by hand propping it?

I'm a little confused here. I have a 3-blade Warp Drive prop on my 912 and

was told never to hand prop it because it turns way too fast and will most

assuredly lop off a few fingers. 

Les



[quote] --

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:48 am Post subject: Free Wheeling Prop

Les,

   I believe we were refering to always turning the prop thru by hand in order to check the oil quantity and to get the oil out of the case and into the oil tank prior to engine start. You could readily tell if you had normal compression or a hydraulic lock.

   As you say ,you should NEVER hand prop the engine to start it.Although in my Rotax engine class the instructor Dean mentioned that he knew of two cases where it was done and it was successful. Both guys that did it said they would NEVER do it again! (a good way to loose life or limb)

                                               Dick Maddux

                                               Kitfox 4-1200

                                               912UL

                                               Pensacola,Fl



A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above.  See yours in just 2 easy steps!

  [quote][b]

thilo.kind(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:55 pm Post subject: Free Wheeling Prop

Hi everybody,  

   

I have a hard time believing, that you can start a 912 by end – you will need at least 300 RPM for the ignition to fire the plugs – that’s a bit too much for hand propping.  

   

Thilo Kind  

Zodiac CH 601 HDS with Rotax 912  

         

  

From: owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rotaxengines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Catz631(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 12:48

 To: rotaxengines-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RotaxEngines-List: Free Wheeling Prop  

  

     

Les,  

    

  I believe we were refering to always turning the prop thru by hand in order to check the oil quantity and to get the oil out of the case and into the oil tank prior to engine start. You could readily tell if you had normal compression or a hydraulic lock.  

    

  As you say ,you should NEVER hand prop the engine to start it.Although in my Rotax engine class the instructor Dean mentioned that he knew of two cases where it was done and it was successful. Both guys that did it said they would NEVER do it again! (a good way to loose life or limb)  

    

                                              Dick Maddux  

    

                                              Kitfox 4-1200  

    

                                              912UL  

    

                                              Pensacola,Fl  

  



 

         

  

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!  

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Dale Orth

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Las Vegas,Nv

Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: Free Wheeling Prop

Thanks Guys,

 This is a great Web site. Very informative.

Dale

_________________
Dale
KitFox 7
Las Vegas, Nv
daleorth@embarqmail.com

paul perry

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 36

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Free Wheeling Prop

Dale, I  have a 912ul (about 100hrs time) on a kitfox and have had a similar problem the last 2 days. The first time (11/1)  I just hand turned the prop  and started getting compression about every 3rd blade and kept this up until I could "burp" the oil tank. I then tried starting again and finally it fired but ran very rough for a few minutes before settling down. Then today (11/2) I hand rotated prop and again..no compression at all..this time I removed spark plugs one at a time and rotated prop and it may have been a coincidence, but after removing the first plug which was the bottom on cylinder number 3 (i think) once again I had compression about every 3rd blade. I went ahead and removed the other spark plugs one at a time, rotated prop and then re-installed plugs and nothing else changed..still compression about every 3rd blade. Spark plugs were fine as they were recently replaced (3hrs). Again, when starting the engine ran rough a couple of minutes but smoothed up to normal (a little quicker today than yesterday). Have you found anything else out about your problem? I really don't think I did anything to correct my problem other than turning the prop over and letting it sit a few minutes?  Anybody else with ideas/experiences  would be appreciated.



Thanks, Paul Perry

Dale Orth

Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Las Vegas,Nv

Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Free Wheeling Prop

Hi Guys,

 I talked to a Rotax mechanic in Phoenix and he said that carbon deposits  on the valves can cause the "no compression" effect when hand propping. He recommended using Marvel Mystery Oil to the fuel to remove Carbon deposits. The previous owner of my plane always used auto fuel and the plane sat for long periods with the sludge from auto fuel building up. Since I'm not sure what I'm  getting with Auto fuel I decided to use 100LL Avgas, add Mystery oil & change oil & filter every 25 hrs. I'm also adding Decalin to the Avgas. I was also told to run the engine hard for awhile when using Avgas. I'm using Aeroshell Plus 4 oil. The way I see it spending a little more $$$$ for Oil & additives is cheaper than an early Engine Overhaul. I guess time will tell if this works.

Dale

_________________
Dale
KitFox 7
Las Vegas, Nv
daleorth@embarqmail.com

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