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cedavis
Joined: 05 Jun 2006
Posts: 23
Location: Malvern, PA
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 Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:32 pm Post subject: LSA (Was Airport Attitudes) |
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Last year down in Frederick, MD for the 16 hours SP repair man course, we were fortunate enough to have a fellow student who is an FAA lawyer, and was heavily involved in drafting the SP / LSA rules. (He's also a CFI and retired military, all in all, a great guy.) Here is his off the record take on how the SP rule came about:
USUA and other orgs had requested an expansion of part 103. This was never going to happen, for the simple reason that 103 is illegal (Yes, I did a double take on that one as well). You see, the US code (the actual law passed by Congress that the FAA is suppose to be implementing), requires that all airplanes and pilots in the US be licensed. Calling an "airplane" a "vehicle" doesn't change that fact.
Never mind how the original regs got passed. Today, any amendments would never make it past a legal review. So, he predicts the only change we might ever see in 103 is it's repeal, but that since the FAA would like to keep it, their solution is to ignore 103. However, they needed to respond to the requests, so they came up with a simpler, less regulatory complex set of rules that do require pilot licence's and aircraft registrations. Yes, these regs ended up substantially different then some of the original proposals, and how taht happened is a different story. However, how they got started at all, rather then amendinng 103, is interesting in it's own right.
Well, that's one person's take on it, second hand anyway. I've pretty much recounted the story as I remember it, and while I'm afraid it is the type of posting to stir up some questions, I'm not likely to be able to answer many of them
Chuck
Time: 02:38:06 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Airport Attitudes
From: "lucien" <lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com (lstavenhagen(at)hotmail.com)>
NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net wrote:
> Dana/All
>
> The Sport Pilot rule came about because the rules were SOOOOOO badly abused.
Wrong.
Believe it or not, the rate of abuse of the exemptions was not terribly higher
than the rate of abuse of any other of FnAA's rule sets. You'd be amazed at what's
flying around up there among the big iron, pilots with no medicals, some
with no certificates, planes out of annual for years and years and CFI's who don't
teach.
Also, the BFI program brought about one of the largest increases in safety in all
of aviation. Inexpensive and proximal training UL's and fat UL's was all over
the place. It did more than any program to eliminate the self-taught syndrome
with all the attend
[quote][b]
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: LSA (Was Airport Attitudes) |
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At 09:31 PM 10/12/2008, Charles Davis wrote:
| Quote: | Last year down in Frederick, MD for the 16 hours SP repair man course, we
were fortunate enough to have a fellow student who is an FAA lawyer, and
was heavily involved in drafting the SP / LSA rules. (He's also a CFI and
retired military, all in all, a great guy.) Here is his off the record
take on how the SP rule came about:
USUA and other orgs had requested an expansion of part 103. This was
never going to happen, for the simple reason that 103 is illegal...
Never mind how the original regs got passed. Today, any amendments would
never make it past a legal review. So, he predicts the only change we
might ever see in 103 is it's repeal, but that since the FAA would like to
keep it, their solution is to ignore 103...
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Interesting... kinda makes sense. That 103 passed in the first place is
something of a miracle. Note that after 9/11, a few extras were thrown
into 103 (referring to not flying in NOTAM areas and TFR's), but I agree,
it's highly unlikely that they will ever be willing to mess with the actual
definition of an ultralight vehicle.
It makes sense that the FAA would like to keep 103... they don't want to
have to deal with all the hang gliders, paragliders, and PPG's out there,
so we're lucky that they made it a weight and performance limit, instead of
(as in the UK even today for example) keeping the original foot launch
requirement. I love foot launching my PPG, but I don't think I'd want to
try it with my UltraStar... 
-Dana
do not archive
--
Error: Keyboard not attached. Press F1 to continue.
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:07 am Post subject: LSA (Was Airport Attitudes) |
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so we're lucky that they made it a weight and performance limit, instead of
(as in the UK even today for example) keeping the original foot launch
requirement. >>
Hi Dana,
Not true. We started like everyone else with hang gliders for which there
were no regulations. Progressed to putting engines on them. After a series
of crashes the authorities unsurprisingly imposed rules and regs and
invented the `microlight`.
This was specifically a one or two seater with a MAUW and a maximum wing
loading and stalling speed.
The TYPE of plane had to be approved for basic design and flying qualities.
Individual a/c had to be constructed to type and inspected for build
quality. They are signed off as flyable and require an annual check and are
registerd.
Things have remained like that except that the MAUW has been nudged upwards
a couple of times.
In all respects `microlights` are treated as aircraft and are entitled to
fly as high, as fast and in all the places any regular a/c can fly.
In an attempt to get back to absolute basics and to stimulate new design and
ideas there has recently been introduced a `sub 115kg` Category and I think
that the Firefly is the only commercially available model on the market here
which complies although there are several new designs in the pipeline.I
don`t know all the details of the requirements for the sub 115k cat. off
hand but I put them all on the list at one time and may be in the archive.
Wedo not have anything as totally deregulated as your Experimental class but
certainly there are no regs requiring a microlight to be foot launched.
Cheers
Pat
There are no unregistered a/c with engines in the UK except PPG`sand all are
subject to an annual C of A. Come to think of it I believe that gliders now
have to be registered to comply with new EU Regs. Previously they only had a
Brit. Gliding Assoc number.
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: LSA (Was Airport Attitudes) |
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At 10:07 AM 10/13/2008, pj.ladd wrote:
| Quote: | Wedo not have anything as totally deregulated as your Experimental class
but certainly there are no regs requiring a microlight to be foot launched....
There are no unregistered a/c with engines in the UK except PPG`sand all
are subject to an annual C of A...
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Perhaps I got it wrong. In a UK printed book on paramotoring I have, they
speak of the "foot launch exemption" applying to PPG's (and, presumably,
PG, HG, and PHG), and said that if you add wheels to your PPG as is
commonly done in the US, it would no longer qualify for the exemption. Do
even foot launched aircraft require a C of A?
I was aware that your microlight category required registration, etc.
-Dana
--
Do YOU trust a government that won't obey it's OWN LAWS?
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: LSA (Was Airport Attitudes) |
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Do even foot launched aircraft require a C of A?>>
Hi Dana,
perhaps I expressed myself badly. I do not think that PPG, hang gliders etc
require a C of A.and you are probably right that the picture changes when
you add wheels. Wheels are becoming common here too.
Saw a picture this week of a hang glider, with the pilot hanging prone as
they do these days but with a pedal operated propellor on the back. I
wonder what category that will come in.
Pat
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Dana
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: LSA (Was Airport Attitudes) |
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At 04:38 PM 10/15/2008, pj.ladd wrote:
| Quote: | Saw a picture this week of a hang glider, with the pilot hanging prone as
they do these days but with a pedal operated propellor on the back. I
wonder what category that will come in.
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I'd venture the "unsuccessful" category...
-Dana
--
Canadian DOS prompt: EH?\>
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